Posted on 12/20/2004 8:58:25 PM PST by RaceBannon
April 27, 2004
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1089521,00.html
Blunkett spells out 10-year plan for ID cards By Richard Ford, Home Correspondent
A TEN-YEAR plan for the step-by-step introduction of compulsory identity cards was outlined by David Blunkett yesterday.
He paved the way for “biometric” cards carrying a photograph of the holder and his or her iris image and fingerprints.
The Home Secretary’s Draft Identity Cards Bill also sets out proposals for the creation of a National Identity Register of everyone’s personal details.
The Bill provided no detailed costings of the scheme or the likely sums that would be involved if a future Government decided that education, healthcare and welfare benefits could be received only by those possessing a card.
Mr Blunkett said that the Government intended to proceed by “incremental” steps towards his aim of an identity card that eventually will be compulsory for every citizen and every foreign national living in Britain.
He said the Government would first build on existing, widely held voluntary identity documents and would only later take a final decision on whether to make the cards compulsory. This would be the first compulsory identity card scheme in peacetime.
“Eventually everyone lawfully resident in the UK would be required to register for a card, but there would be no compulsion to carry the card or to produce it without good reason,” he added.
The draft Bill proposes the creation of a national identity register that would hold identity details of those people registered and issued with a card. Details held on it would include a person’s full name, date and place of birth and physical characteristics that could help in establishing identity, including biometric information such as a fingerprints, photographs or iris patterns.
Entries would contain an individual’s address, previous addresses and residential status and a national identity registration number, any existing passport number and a national insurance number.
Every British citizen over 16 would be on the register and a person would remain on the database even after death. A decision on whether to make it compulsory to register and to have a card will probably be taken in 2013.
Failure to register would then be a civil offence with a fine of up to £2,500. A person giving false information when registering could be jailed for up to two years. Anyone tampering with the register would face up to ten years in jail.
People on the register would be required to inform the authorities if they changed their name, address or nationality. Failure to do so would result in a £1,000 fine. Information from the register would be available to police, security and intelligence services for specified purposes including the prevention or investigation of crime.
Customs and Excise, the Inland Revenue and the Department for Work and Pensions would also be allowed to seek information when investigating alleged crimes.
It will require a vote in both Houses of Parliament to make the scheme compulsory and after that the Government would have the power to introduce regulations making a card necessary to access certain public services.
Under the Government’s incremental moves towards a compulsory scheme, everyone applying for a new passport after 2007-08 would receive a travel document and separate identity card probably containing a fingerprint and a photograph. Applicants will have no choice unless they wish to stop possessing a passport.
It is estimated that the combined passport/identity card would cost £77 but could rise to £80 and be valid for only five years rather than the present ten.
In 2007, it will be possible for people without a passport to apply for an identity card costing £35.
The Home Office estimates that by 2013, 80 per cent of the population will have the passport and driving licence biometric identity card. It will then be up to Parliament to make the scheme compulsory.
There are expected to be concessions for low-income groups and the elderly, with all 16-year-olds issued with their first card free of charge.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-1409799,00.html
December 20, 2004
ID cards defend the ultimate civil liberty CHARLES CLARKE From preventing benefit fraud to winning the War on Terror, why I am supporting today’s Bill
I HAVE long been a strong supporter of the benefits of identity cards. I became convinced of the advantages as a weapon in fighting crime when I was Police Minister from 1999 to 2001. I backed David Blunkett’s proposals when we discussed them in Cabinet and as Education Secretary I told the Home Affairs Select Committee last April of my personal support for the principle.
That is why I will today propose that the House of Commons gives a second reading to the Identity Cards Bill. I have been urged by opponents of this measure — such as Charles Kennedy and the Liberal Democrats — to “pause for thought” in the entirely forlorn hope that I will abandon the whole idea.
However, I believe that — quite apart from the security advantages — there will be enormous practical benefits. ID cards will potentially make a difference to any area of everyday life where you already have to prove your identity — such as opening a bank account, going abroad on holiday, claiming a benefit, buying goods on credit and renting a video. The possession of a clear, unequivocal and unique form of identity — in the shape of a card linked to a database holding biometrics — will offer significant benefits.
Moreover, their help in tackling fraud will save tens of millions of pounds of taxpayers’ money. Some £50 million a year is claimed illegally from the benefits systems using false identities. This money can be far better spent improving schools and hospitals and fighting crime and antisocial behaviour.
This drive towards secure identity is, of course, happening all over the world. Under current plans, for example, from next autumn British tourists who need a new passport will have to get a biometric one to visit the US or get a biometric visa. We will — rightly — have to bear the costs of introducing the new technology to enhance our passports anyway. We should take the opportunity of that investment to secure wider benefits such as those I set out here.
Of course, the Bill may be amended at the various stages of parliamentary discussion, and I will look carefully at all constructive suggestions to improve our proposals. But I have to say that my commitment to the principle of ID cards is very strong and will not waver, mainly because I think that they will help to make everyone a bit safer, at no real cost to civil liberties.
For example, a secure identity system will help to prevent terrorist activity, more than a third of which makes use of false identities. It will make it far easier to address the vile trafficking in vulnerable human beings that ends in the tragedies of Morecambe Bay, exploitative near-slave labour or vile forced prostitution. It will reduce identity fraud, which now costs the UK more than £1.3 billion every year.
I believe that some critics of our proposals are guilty of liberal woolly thinking and spreading false fears when they wrongly claim that ID cards will erode our civil liberties, will revisit 1984, usher in the “Big Brother” society, or establish some kind of totalitarian police state. Those kinds of nightmare will be no more true of ID cards, when they are introduced, than they have been for the spread of cash and credit cards, driving licences, passports, work security passes and any number of the other current forms of ID that most of us now carry.
In order to reinforce this point, the Bill does not make it compulsory to carry a card, nor does it give powers to the police to stop individuals and demand to see their card. Neither will the database which accompanies the card hold information such as medical records, religion or political beliefs.
Of course, ID cards cannot solve every problem. But — properly and carefully introduced, as they will be — they can be part of the solution. There is no contradiction between the introduction of ID cards and the wide range of other measures with which the Government seeks to fight crime.
I claim that the ID Cards Bill that I am introducing today is a profoundly civil libertarian measure because it promotes the most fundamental civil liberty in our society, which is the right to live free from crime and fear. Both in practice and in principle ID cards are right. I hope that they will gain wide support throughout our society, and the sooner the better.
Charles Clarke is Home Secretary
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C2-1410171%2C00.html
Rebel bid fails to block ID cards By Trevor Mason and Joe Churcher, PA Political Staff and Times Online
Tory and Labour rebels failed tonight to block Government plans to press ahead with identity cards.
The revolt was an embarrassment both for Tony Blair and Tory leader Michael Howard, who threw his party’s support behind the legislation.
Opening the impassioned five-hour debate, Home Secretary Charles Clarke launched a fierce defence of the flagship legislation.
In the first test of his authority, just five days after taking over from David Blunkett, he denied ID cards marked an erosion of civil liberties and insisted they would help prevent terrorism and combat fraud.
“There is an entirely false claim that ID cards will erode our civil liberties, will re-visit 1984, will usher in the Big Brother society or establish some kind of totalitarian police state,” he told Commons critics.
“A secure identity scheme will help to prevent terrorist activity - more than a third of which makes use of false identities.
“It will make it far easier to address the vile trafficking in vulnerable human beings ... “It will reduce identity fraud, which now costs the UK more than 1.3 billion every year.”
Facing a barrage of protests, Mr Clarke said ID cards would also save the taxpayer tens of millions of pounds a year by helping to curb benefit fraud. Critics claimed however that they would act as an unreasonable intrusion into liberties and privacy, without seriously tackling crime or terrorism.
The Bill was given a second reading by 385 votes to 93, Government majority 292.
Here are some examples of an implantable chip to track a person and conduct electronic transactions:
http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/world/mark2.htm
http://news.com.com/Under-the-skin+ID+chips+move+toward+U.S.+hospitals/2100-7337_3-5285815.html?tag=nefd.top
Under-the-skin ID chips move toward U.S. hospitals Last modified: July 27, 2004, 12:47 PM PDT By Michael Kanellos Staff Writer, CNET News.com
VeriChip, the company that makes radio frequency identification--RFID--tags for humans, has moved one step closer to getting its technology into hospitals.
The Federal Drug Administration issued a ruling Tuesday that essentially begins a final review process that will determine whether hospitals can use RFID systems from the Palm Beach, Fla.-based company to identify patients and/or permit relevant hospital staff to access medical records, said Angela Fulcher, vice president of marketing and sales at VeriChip.
VeriChip sells 11-millimeter RFID tags that get implanted in the fatty tissue below the right tricep. When near one of Verichip's scanners, the chip wakes up and radios an ID number to the scanner. If the number matches an ID number in a database, a person with the chip under his or her skin can enter a secured room or complete a financial transaction.
"It is used instead of other biometric applications," such as fingerprints, Fulcher said.
The approval process does not center on health risks or implications, Fulcher said. VeriChip can already sell implantable RFID chips in the United States for standard security applications and the financial market. The company's basic technology has also been used in animals for years.
Instead, the FDA may mostly examine privacy issues, Fulcher indicated. In other words, the agency will look at whether the technology will lead to situations where confidential information can get improperly disclosed.
Technically, the FDA on Tuesday issued a letter stating that there were no equivalent products on the market. This allowed VeriChip to then seek a de novo, or additional, review. The application process started in October 2003.
The Italian Ministry of Health kicked off a six-month trial of the chips for hospitals in April.
VeriChip, a division of Applied Digital Solutions, generated headlines worldwide recently with the announcement that the Attorney General of Mexico implanted one of the small company's RFID tags in his arm.
Fulcher said the basic technology has been around for a while. For 15 years, Digital Angel, a sister company under the Applied corporate umbrella, has sold thousands of tags for identifying animals. The U.S. Department of Energy employs Digital Angel's technology to monitor salmon migration. Several implants have been placed in household pets and livestock.
"We believe the tags can last 20 years," Fulcher said.
The idea for employing the tags to identify humans came after the horror of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, Fulcher said. Richard Seelig, vice president of medical applications at Applied, saw on TV how firemen were writing their badge numbers on their arm with pen so they could be identified in the event of a disaster""
http://www.time.com/time/europe/html/040719/gdi/mcgregor.html
Scott McGregor Philips | Netherlands Most technology executives are lucky to be part of one revolution; few would even dream of being involved in two. So envy 48-year-old Scott McGregor, who two decades ago led the development of the Windows operating system at Microsoft. Today, as chief executive of Philips Semiconductors, he is spearheading the Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) movement, which aims to put electronic ID chips on everything from ketchup bottles to army tanks. The RFID chip, says McGregor, "is changing the way people do business and interact."
Sounds like hype, but it's true. RFID tags are tiny devices that transmit information about the objects on which they reside. Relatively unknown just a few years ago, RFID chips are potentially the greatest technology to hit retailing since the bar code, as giant retailers like Metro in Germany and Wal-Mart in the U.S. use them to track shipments and inventory. The U.S. Department of Defense has ordered suppliers to deploy them to help the military keep tabs on stocks of essentials, such as jeep parts, and Las Vegas casinos are snapping them into poker chips to tally bets. Little wonder that market-analysis firm AMR Research predicts a $20 billion RFID industry by 2013. ""
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/story.jsp?story=542144
Satellites will track 5,000 of the worst criminals in Britain By Sophie Goodchild and Andrew Johnson 18 July 2004
Satellite technology will be used to track 5,000 career criminals who are responsible for one in every 10 crimes in Britain, the Home Secretary David Blunkett will announce tomorrow.
The radical new technology, which has been developed in the US, will enable law enforcement officers to pinpoint the exact location of criminals who have been released early from prison and fitted with electronic tags.
It will feature among a series of measures in a five-year plan to tackle burgeoning violent crime and antisocial behaviour. Home Office figures released next week will show police forces recording rises as high as 25 per cent.
A Home Office source said: "We are the largest users of tagging outside the US and we will continue to do this. We will introduce satellite tracing for prolific offenders as well as for domestic violence and sex offenders."""
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=624&u=/ap/20040713/ap_on_sc/sex_offenders_gps&printer=1
Tennessee May Use GPS on Parolees Tue Jul 13,12:17 PM ET
NASHVILLE, Tenn. - Seven contractors have expressed interest in the state's $2.5 million pilot project that would use a global positioning system, or GPS, to keep track of violent sex offenders that have been paroled.
The tracking technology was first used in Florida in late 1990s to keep track of released felons, and some cities and counties in other states utilize GPS for similar uses.
The Tennessee project will not be used statewide for at least a year after it begins early in 2005. It will be focused in Memphis and Nashville and other parts of the state's three grand divisions.
"Basically, we want to have a good mix between urban and rural areas," said state Rep. Rob Briley, D-Nashville, chief House sponsor of legislation creating the pilot program.
The state Board of Probation and Parole will decide where to use the pilot program.
Initially, about half of the state's 1,200 registered sex offenders will be fitted with bracelets that will be tracked constantly by a GPS system monitored by law enforcement. ""
Attorney general has microchip fitted http://tvnz.co.nz/view/news_world_story_skin/435837%3fformat=html
Jul 13, 2004 Mexico's attorney general said he had had a microchip inserted under the skin of one of his arms to give him access to a new crime database and also enable him to be traced if he is ever abducted.
Attorney General Rafael Macedo said a number of his staff had also been fitted with chips which will give them exclusive and secure access to a national, computerized database for crime investigators that went live.
"It's an area of high security, it's necessary that we have access to this, through a chip, which what's more is unremovable," Macedo told reporters.
"The system is here and I already have it. It's solely for access, for safety and so that I can be located at any moment wherever I am," he said, admitting the chip hurt "a little". ""
Human chips more than skin-deep By Michael Kanellos CNET News.com August 23, 2004, 4:25 AM PT http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103-5319869.html
There's not a lot of middle ground on the subject of implanting electronic identification chips in humans.
Advocates of technologies like radio frequency identification tags say their potentially life-saving benefits far outweigh any Orwellian concerns about privacy. RFID tags sewn into clothing or even embedded under people's skin could curb identity theft, help identify disaster victims and improve medical care, they say.
Critics, however, say such technologies would make it easier for government agencies to track a person's every movement and allow widespread invasion of privacy. Abuse could take countless other forms, including corporations surreptitiously identifying shoppers for relentless sales pitches. Critics also speculate about a day when people's possessions will be tagged--allowing nosy subway riders with the right technology to examine the contents of nearby purses and backpacks.
"Invasion of privacy is going to be impossible to avoid," said Katherine Albrecht, the founder and director of Consumers Against Supermarket Privacy Invasion and Numbering, or CASPIAN, a watchdog group created to monitor the use of data collected in the so-called loyalty programs used increasingly by supermarkets. Albrecht worries about a day when "every physical item is registered to its owner." ""
FDA approves implantable chip for humans 13 oct. 2004 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6237364/
Hello Mexico! Mexican Officials Get Chipped Wired News 13th of July 2004 Mexico's attorney general said on Monday he had had a microchip inserted under the skin of one of his arms to give him access to a new crime database and also enable him to be traced if he is ever abducted. Attorney General Rafael Macedo said a number of his staff had also been fitted with chips that will give them exclusive and secure access to a national, computerized database for crime investigators that went live on Monday.
Watch out Spain! Get chipped, then charge without plastic — you are the card USA TODAY 5/12/2004 For instance, there's the important and deeply scientific experiment being conducted among the barely clothed patrons of Baja Beach Club in Barcelona. They're getting electronic credit cards implanted under their skin. Beautiful club-goers have a problem: If you're going to wear a halter top and micro-skirt, there's not much of anywhere to put a wallet. And who wants to carry a purse when you're there to dance? Luckily, a company called VeriChip this year unveiled a solution based on radio-frequency identification (RFID) technology. It's a slender glass capsule about as long as a dime is wide. Inside sits a computer chip, which stores a unique code that can identify an individual — sort of an electronic Social Security number. The capsule also holds a tiny antenna, which can radio that code to a receiver many feet away. At the Baja Beach Club, Tuesdays are VeriChip implantation days. Stop in and a "nurse" — the club's word — uses a syringe to inject a VeriChip capsule under your skin. http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/maney/2004-05-12-chip_x.htm?POE=click-refer
Watch out World! VeriChip Pre-Registration Get Chipped™ ARE YOU READY TO GET CHIPPED? READ ON - WARNING! R. A. LaVigne Apr 6, 2004 VeriChip, the world's first subdermal personal verification technology, announces a special, introductory pre-registration program. Sign up today to be among the first in the world to "Get Chipped." http://www.adsx.com/prodservpart/verichippreregistration.html
Chipping the Children BUSINESS WIRE October 01, 2003 PALM BEACH, Fla. -- Applied Digital Solutions, Inc. (Nasdaq: ADSX), an advanced technology development company, announced today that Solusat, the Company's exclusive distributor of VeriChip(TM) products and services in Mexico, has signed a cooperation agreement with Mexico's National Foundation for the Investigation of Lost and Kidnapped Children (Fundacion Nacional de Investigaciones de Ninos Robados y Desaparecidos). http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20031001005410&newsLang=en
November 21, 2003 By Sherrie Gossett WorldNetDaily.com At a global security conference held today in Paris, an American company announced a new syringe-injectable microchip implant for humans, designed to be used as a fraud-proof payment method for cash and credit-card transactions. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=35766
Radio frequency identification tags aren't just for pallets of goods in supermarkets anymore Applied Digital Solutions of Palm Beach, Fla., is hoping that Americans can be persuaded to implant RFID chips under their skin to identify themselves when going to a cash machine or in place of using a credit card. The surgical procedure, which is performed with local anesthetic, embeds a 12-by-2.1mm RFID tag in the flesh of a human arm. ADS Chief Executive Scott Silverman, in a speech at the ID World 2003 conference in Paris last Friday, said his company had developed a "VeriPay" RFID technology and was hoping to find partners in financial services firms. http://news.com.com/2100-1041-5111637.html
ADS is running a special promotion, urging Americans to "get chipped." The first 100,000 people to sign up will receive a $50 discount.
Miami journalist gets 'chipped' Implantable-ID company puts product into science writer By Sherrie Gossett WorldNetDaily.com http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32286
The implication of Auto-ID October 5, 2003 From Dave "Theft will be drastically reduced because items will report when they are stolen, their smart tags also serving as a homing device toward their exact location." - MIT's Auto-ID Center Since the Auto-ID Center's founding at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) in 1999, it has moved forward at remarkable speed. The center has attracted funding from some of the largest consumer goods manufacturers in the world, and even counts the Department of Defense among its sponsors. In a mid-2001 pilot test with Gillette, Philip Morris, Procter & Gamble, and Wal-Mart, the center wired the entire city of Tulsa, Oklahoma with radio-frequency equipment to verify its ability to track Auto-ID equipped packages. The Implication of Auto-ID article
Microchip Implants, Mind Control, and Cybernetics By Rauni-Leena Luukanen-Kilde, MD Former Chief Medical Officer of Finland December 6, 2000
Are we ready for the robotization of mankind and the total elimination of privacy, including freedom of thought? How many of us would want to cede our entire life, including our most secret thoughts, to Big Brother? Yet the technology exists to create a totalitarian New World Order. Covert neurological communication systems are in place to counteract independent thinking and to control social and political activity on behalf of self-serving private and military interests. When our brain functions are already connected to supercomputers by means of radio implants and microchips, it will be too late for protest. This threat can be defeated only by educating the public, using available literature on biotelemetry and information exchanged at international congresses. http://conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/microchip_implants_mind_control.htm
World's Smallest Microchip Unveiled Aljazeera.net 9-3-3 (AFP) -- Malaysia has bought the rights from a Japanese firm to the world's smallest microchip that can be embedded in everything from currencies to human bodies. http://www.rense.com/general41/alaj.htm
Chipping Russia, Colombia, Venezuela, Argentina, the Carribean, the Dominican Republic, Mexico VeriChip Corporation Signs New International Distribution Agreements for Russia, Colombia and Venezuela, Argentina, the Carribean, the Dominican Republic and Mexico. Minimum Purchase Requirements to Maintain Exclusivity. Cipping Russia, Colombia Venuzuela, Argentina, the Carribean, the Dominican Republic, Mexico
Barcoding humans The era of implanting people with identity chips is up on us By Angela Swafford, Globe Correspondent, 5/20/2003 The painless procedure barely lasted 15 minutes. In his South Florida office, Dr. Harvey Kleiner applied a local anesthetic above the tricep of my right arm, then he inserted a thick needle deep under the skin. http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/140/science/Barcoding_humans+.shtml
How nice! The Chip as a Satellite Baby-Sitting Service By Julia Sheeres May 02 - 2002 Two companies have announced plans to launch personal GPS "location devices" this year, which will act as a kind of LoJack for everyone from meandering children to nervous executives in kidnap-prone countries. http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,52253,00.html
Motorola-Packard Mass Producing Bio-Chips Take note--MASS PRODUCE BIOCHIPS. The United States government has entered into an agreement with two publicly held corporations to MASS PRODUCE BIOCHIPS. From Psychops Research http://www.osti.gov/biochip.htm & more http://www.rense.com/general/biochips.htm
The ChipMobile Is Coming - Chip Implants Now On Sale Get Chipped! FDA approved! (October 2002) http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0%2C1848%2C55999%2C00.html
Chipping Kids Girl to get tracker implant to ease parents' fears Jamie Wilson, Tuesday September 3, 2002, The Guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/child/story/0,7369,785073,00.html
Chips Ahoy!!! Wednesday, August 07, 2002 Stu's News D G Stewart "Micro Management" has taken on a whole new meaning, yes? The recent increase in news reports about abducted children, more oft than not found heaven-bound, sadly to say, is only going to continue. The mass hysteria generated by the removal of the chicks from the hens follows the pecking order of this new feeding frenzy found to be induced by the ever increasing granules of terror doled out by the farmer, who continues to fatten his poultry for butchering. We continue to witness a large sector of delusional mindsets, insomuch as our society has been sold on the theory that the costs TO freedom outweigh the costs FOR freedom. That the events of 9/11 remain the catalyst - if not catapult - for swift and sudden changes in both attitudes and approaches is inarguable. Consider, for example, the following files: Chips Ahoy! Stay tuned, skeptics!
Applied Digital Solutions Proposes Implanting Travellers with Microchips "for Their Safety and Convenience" "It can reduce long lines at the airport and make check-ins more accurate," said Gary Gray, vice president of wireless and software for VeriChip Corp., a subsidiary of Applied Digital. Applied Digital Solutions Inc. -- that's right, the folks who brought you the implantable VeriChip -- says it has devised a way for airport security to link a person to their luggage through a permanent identification device. http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/monday/business_d362c088a633a00a00d9.html
Eight people injected with silicon chips Tribune Media Services By DAVID STREITFELD, Los Angeles Times (June 7, 2002 11:35 a.m. EDT) - Eight people recently have been injected with silicon chips, making them scannable just like a jar of peanut butter in the supermarket checkout line. http://nandotimes.com/healthscience/v-text/story/427019p-3410936c.html
First Humans to Receive ID Chips Technology Device implanted under skin will provide identification and medical information. By DAVID STREITFELD Times Staff Writer May 9 2002 http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-050902chipped.story
There is more than just chips, there are national ID cards being mandated by some European countries that will contain some sort of chip to identify the person. Here are a few recent articles from just a single source:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1381222,00.html November 30, 2004 Make your identity known — or face a fine of £1,000 By Richard Ford, Home Correspondent PEOPLE who fail to tell the Government when they move to a new address will face a fine of up to £1,000 under the Government’s plans for identity cards published yesterday. Failure to register for the scheme will also carry a fine of up to £1,000 and anyone caught tampering with the database containing the details of 40 million people could be jailed for ten years. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,4003-1048594,00.html March 23, 2004
A threat to liberty or a threat to terrorists? by Danny Lee Politicians and lawyers argued for and against national identity cards in a debate at the Law Society THE introduction of identity cards to help the fight against terrorism is moving up the Government’s agenda after the Madrid bombings and with anxiety rising in the approach to this summer’s European elections. “I sincerely hope that the Government will not proceed to a full identity-card system,” Roger Smith, director of Justice, told an audience of politicians and lawyers in a debate on identity cards, crime, terrorism and civil liberties at the Law Society yesterday. “The current technology is flawed; the benefits speculative; practical hurdles huge; cost high; and the culture of English-speaking, common-law countries uniformly hostile to such an imposition on the privacy of citizens.” From a legal point of view, however, Smith did not foresee any difficulties. “The Government could undoubtedly craft a case for identity cards that was unchallengeable by the courts in human rights terms,” he said. “Under the European Convention, it is likely to be regarded as a legitimate subject for political judgment.”
Taken by themselves, either of these developments is ominous, but taken together, not only do we see the will of nations to number everyone through a national ID, provide security, control commerce, but we see the means to do this electronically through biometrics, something in the skin. Taken together, this sounds almost identical to the MARK OF THE BEAST in Revelation 13.
(Rev 13:11 KJV) And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
(Rev 13:12 KJV) And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
(Rev 13:13 KJV) And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
(Rev 13:14 KJV) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
(Rev 13:15 KJV) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
(Rev 13:16 KJV) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
(Rev 13:17 KJV) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
(Rev 13:18 KJV) Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
Take notice that there will be no buying and selling without this mark. I cannot imagine a people who would accept such a thing unless they have been programmed to accept such a device to be placed on their body permanently.
These micro-chips in the skin are the first devices the world has seen that have the power to perform what Rev 13:16-18 says, and the use of these chips for the reasons we have seen here prove the world already has the motive and forethought to use chips like this for exactly the reasons cited in Rev 13.
All that is needed is the political will of some World Ruler to use a chipping device of a similar sort as mentioned here for the reasons stated in Rev 13: To Control all world commerce and to deny it to those who refuse to swear allegiance to his rule!
So, what does the Bible state as the Nation or Kingdom where such a ruler as this will come from?
We now know, 12 Nations in Europe have gone to a common currency, The EURO. With a common money, we are creating a common people, a uniting of nations, an economic bloc of 350 Million people plus, and if they ever decided to put their national differences away, put aside their historical hatreds, they could become the worlds strongest superpower ever seen, stronger than the United States ever could be.
"Welcome to the European Commission’s website on the euro, Europe’s single currency.
The euro is the currency of twelve European Union countries, stretching from the Mediterranean to the Arctic Circle (namely Belgium, Germany, Greece, Spain, France, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and Finland).
Euro banknotes and coins have been in circulation since 1 January 2002 and are now a part of daily life for over 300 million Europeans living in the euro area.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/economy_finance/euro/our_currency_en.htm
I believe this unification of economics in these 12 nations through the EURO is a precursor to what Bible students call THE REVIVED ROMAN EMPIRE.
Notice the statements describing the unified Europe due to the Euro http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/12/30/weuro30.xml This time it's real: the euro conquers the Continent By Julian Coman (Filed: 30/12/2001)
On Tuesday the greatest financial upheaval in European history occurs when 12 nations switch to the euro. It will be a week of florid rhetoric - and chaos in the streets, reports Julian Coman
IT was the Prime Minister of Luxembourg who laid the foundations for the most ambitious experiment in the history of money.
In 1970, Pierre Werner outlined the first proposals for an "economic and monetary union" in Europe. Thirty-two years later, amid some acclaim and much popular trepidation, Luxembourg's vision has become Europe's reality."
Here is another Reference http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fmoney%2F2001%2F12%2F31%2Fweur31.xml Launch of euro 'heralds peace and prosperity' By Toby Helm in Frankfurt (Filed: 31/12/2001)
THE launch of euro notes and coins at midnight tonight will create a new era of peace and prosperity for Europe and change forever the way its citizens relate to each other, the head of the European Central Bank said yesterday.
The predictions from Wim Duisenberg, the president of the Frankfurt-based bank, came as 12 European Union nations finalized preparations for the changeover.
While many of euroland's 306 million citizens fear that the transition will bring chaos and confusion in the short term, Mr Duisenberg said people would quickly get used to it and feel the benefits of sharing the same currency.
"It will have profound repercussions on the way in which we conceive of our role as Europeans, strengthening the process of European integration and contributing to maintaining a durable peace and prosperity on the whole European continent," he said."
Europe is Stronger now than it would be without the EURO http://www.ananova.com/business/story/sm_484845.html
"Euro cash becomes legal tender for 300 million Europeans
More than 300 million Europeans have begun swapping their old currencies for the euro at midnight.
Greece and Finland led the way as the euro took physical form as notes and coins a decade after it was conceived.
In Helsinki, Finnish Finance Minister Sauli Niinisto made the first official purchase, buying a cup of coffee with a euro coin at the Casino Ray.
And in the euro zone's southeastern fringe, Greek Premier Costas Simitis withdrew euro bank notes from an automatic teller machine, which he deposited in a charity box for Unicef. Minutes later, hundreds of people flocked to ATMs.
"This is a milestone in Greek history. Now we are part of united Europe," Mr Simitis said."
"Why the euro? Benefits of the single currency There are a number of clear benefits to having a single European currency which can also be seen as the major motivations behind the creation of the euro.
Practical benefits for citizens: travelling with the euro
Single market: reaping the full benefits of the EU's single market
Single financial market: benefits for savers and borrowers
Macroeconomic framework: benefits of a single currency to the economy as a whole
Europe’s role in the world: advantages for Europe's international role
Political integration: benefits related to the wider process of integration Academic research on the relative merits of fixed and flexible exchange rates (optimal currency area) also points to a number of economic challenges for countries participating in a single currency. These include increasing the mobility of labour and capital and encouraging trade and stronger competition. http://europa.eu.int/comm/economy_finance/euro/benefits/benefits_main_en.htm ""
What doe the Bible say about this combined European Kingdom, its leader and geographic location?
We first read of this in Daniel, chapter 2: King Nebuchadnezzar had a dream, and called all the wise men to interpret it. Only Daniel said he could tell the meaning of the dream. Here is interpretation of that dream from Daniel chapter 2:
31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. 32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, 33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay. 34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. 35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth. 36 This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king. 37 Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. 38 And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold. 39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth. 40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. 41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
Historians for centuries have called the histories of the Middle East by the descriptions you have just read here in the Book of Daniel.
The reign of Babylon is called the GOLDEN AGE, the reign of Media/Persia is called the SILVER AGE; the reign of Greece is called the BRONZE AGE; and the reign of ROME is called the IRON AGE.
Note the description of the final stage of the IRON AGE: 42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. 43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
Historians knew ROME is the IRON AGE, that it was the prophetic fulfillment of the legs of IRON, yet no one knew for certain who the TOES OF IRON MIXED WITH MIREY CLAY were, other than the connection with ROME, and the Roman Empire.
We live in a day and age where we are seeing this rebirth of a 'Roman Empire', the unification of the greatest part of Europe through a common currency, a common form of Government being formed to guide all commerce and policies through a European parliament separate from all national governments.
With all the infighting of European nations, this could easily be the formation of the final appearance of nations before the 7 year tribulation spoken of in Daniel and Revelation; just read the description of the toes: IRON MIXED WITH MIREY CLAY. That is clear, iron and clay mixed is not strong, it is not finally unified, it has power of iron, but sticks together like clay mixed with rocks of iron; ie; hardly at all! A Europe unified through currency would be described like this quite easily: Unified through money, but absolutely independent and un-combinable because of past history.
Much of this infighting is based on the restructuring of European power and which country will yield the main influence. Recent articles have called for the disbanding of NATO, leading the major European powers answering only to themselves, the Eu nations, not a conglomerate unity based on 60 year old treaties.
Here are some recent examples: Secret EU plot to kill Nato http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2004521270,00.html By NIC CECIL Political Correspondent
A SECRET EU plot to wreck NATO and torpedo the UK’s influence in Europe was sensationally laid bare by Spain’s Prime Minister yesterday.
He vowed his country would stand shoulder to shoulder with fellow Iraq war weasels France and Germany — to dictate a common EU defense policy that would leave Britain sidelined.
Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero brazenly declared the ultimate aim was to challenge America.
He declared: “Europe must believe that it can be in 20 years the most important world power. We want to arrange the European future at the side of France and Germany. Spain sees itself with France and Germany as never before.”
His comments were a huge blow to Tony Blair, who has fought to make the UK, Germany and France the key power-trio in Europe.
Zapatero was quizzed by German magazine Der Spiegel about the EU’s continuing need for US troops to deal with crises in the Balkans under the Nato umbrella.
He said: “Naturally it will still last some time, until we develop a closed defence policy. That can happen only after the agreement on a common foreign policy. The EU constitution is an important step in this direction.
“In 15 to 20 years we will surely have a foreign service for the EU.”
Socialist Zapatero — slammed for surrendering to terrorist demands when he withdrew Spanish troops from Iraq — said the constitution was a “milestone” on the road to a European military and economic superpower.
Shadow Foreign Secretary Michael Ancram stormed: “This is yet another example of the real EU agenda of the EU constitution. It makes a nonsense of Tony Blair’s claims to have achieved an EU constitution which preserves national sovereignty.”
Neil O’Brien, of anti-EU constitution group Vote No, said: “Tony Blair has been suckered into signing an EU constitution which would make it hard for Britain to work with the US.”
Yesterday Zapatero and German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder agreed to boost defence co-operation over tanks, torpedoes and missiles.
The Spanish PM insisted in his interview that he wanted closer relations with the US — as long as there was an end to the war in Iraq and a greater role for the UN.
But President George Bush showed what he thought of him when Zapatero phoned to congratulate him on his election victory. Mr. Bush refused to come on the line
This section in Daniel is not the only mention of this unified Roman Empire arising.
In Daniel 7, we read of a vision that Daniel had. Once again, Daniel is told of 4 beasts. Remember, Nebuchadnezzar vision had 4 parts; the head of Gold, the Arms of Silver, the Belly of Brass, and the Legs of Iron, (With the toes of Iron and Clay), Daniels vision had 4 beasts. Here is the part of the vision that pertains to ROME:
7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. 9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. 10 A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.
We read here, following the same pattern of the previous images, that ROME again is the 4th beast, dreadful and terrible. Everyone knows Rome ruled the Western world for centuries, but this beast is a little different, it is called diverse from all others, and it has 10 horns. Horns in ancient meanings referred to power, and could refer to Kings. This beast has a little horn arise out of the 10 horns who overthrew 3 of the Horns before him. That shows that this little horn takes over 3 Kings or Kingdoms that came out of the original 10.
Bible students believe this is the Anti-Christ. He comes from the 10 horns, the revived Roman Empire, and in taking power, consolidating power, he takes over 3 rebelious countries (Iron mixed with mirey clay) and rules sepreme,..... Until when?
Until the thrones were cast down and the Ancient of Days sits in judgment. We call that the return of Christ to the Earth at the end of the tribulation. That means this ROMAN EMPIRE like country, is in power at the time of Christ's Return. That means this unification of Europe once again into a single economic bloc could very well be this revived Roman Empire standing up, not just a birth pang, but the breech of the womb itself, with the crown of the head exposed fully.
Note the time period spoken of here, of the full reign of the Anti-Christ who comes from the 10 Kingdoms:
23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. 24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. 25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
This Time and Times and a dividing of times, is interpreted as: 1 year + 2 years + a half of a year; or 3 1/2 years. Bible students know that the full reign of the evilness of the Anti-Christ happens in the last 3 1/2 years of the 7 year tribulation. They also know that the Anti-Christ is slain by the sword in the middle of his reign, and then is miraculously resurrected back to life by the power of Satan.
There are 2 more places I want to show where this REVIVED ROMAN EMPIRE is predicted in the Bible. In Daniel chapter 9:
Daniel was praying for the sins of his people who were being held as slaves in Babylon, and an Angel came to him and told him this: 24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
Note this: The Angel told Daniel not only that the temple in Jerusalem would be rebuilt, but when the Messiah would come in relation to that rebuilding. Daniel used 'weeks' to explain 'WEEKS OF YEARS’; a week of years was 7 years. From the time of the rebuilding of the Temple to the time Messiah would be cut off would be 69 weeks of years, or 483 years.
Note also, there is one week of years left. There is a mention of 'THE PEOPLE OF THE PRINCE THAT SHALL COME' that shall destroy the temple and the sanctuary. Daniel was already in Babylon, the temple was already destroyed, so this had to be a future temple. We know from history that the temple was rebuilt again, and we call it "HEROD'S TEMPLE".
We also know from history, that the Roman Legions under the Roman general TITUS came and destroyed the temple in AD 70. Therefore, it is easy to see that the PEOPLE OF THE PRINCE WHO SHALL COME that destroy the city and the temple are ROMANS.
Note also, immediately after the mentioning of the destruction of the temple, we read of that final week, and a man is mentioned, 'HE', someone who is from the Roman empire, it is HE that is considered the PRINCE of the PEOPLE, ROME, and HE makes a covenant with many, breaks this covenant in the middle of the week, (3 1/2 years, remember that reference above?), and all this is done before judgment occurs. Like the references spoken above, this is one man who comes for a week of years, 7 years, in the middle of this 7 years, he ends the sacrifices, and HE is from the ROMAN Empire.
For centuries, there was NO ROMAN EMPIRE. We are seeing this happening before our eyes, the toes mixed with mirey clay, joining the old Roman Empire together in a weak form, just like the Bible said.
Here is the final reference I mentioned. In Revelation 17, we read of the WHORE of Babylon. For a few centuries, Protestants believed this was the Roman Catholic Church. Many peoples were persecuted under the name of Catholicism and people were once forbidden to read the Scriptures in their own language under penalty of death.
However, Protestantism did not forsee their own apostasy, though. While I agree with the major doctrinal issues they disagreed with Rome on, they themselves did not remain pure, and anyone with an open mind can look at Protestantism today and see it is just as apostate as Rome ever was concerning doctrine, and even more so in some cases.
But, the combination of Catholicism and Protestantism being the WHORE is still incomplete. Any religious belief that does not measure up to Scripture is called a spiritual counterfeit, and is considered adultery against God in the spiritual sense. The relationship of marriage was meant to teach us of our relationship to God: God was to be the perfect husband, to care for us, to make sure we were fed, to protect us, while we were to be the perfect compliment, willfully serving and obeying the perfect master, seeing God as our perfect parent, providing for us, and chastising us when needed to keep us in the right direction.
To believe something that God did not say, then is to be adulterous against God. In Ezekiel 23, we read of an analogy of 2 sisters who represent Judah and Israel, and their disobedience to God. Their disobedience is called whoredoms and harlotry. In Revelation 17, the woman in red is called the MOTHER OF ALL HARLOTS.
This is NOT 'Mariolatry' as some called years before, it is all religious belief that is against God doctrinally, all belief that is false and incorrect.
All religions that have hated God and His word have killed and created martyrs of true believers. Mormonism, Catholicism, Protestantism have all had its murders, Communism, Islam to name a few. So, in this description of the WHORE who is drunk with the blood of the saints, it cannot be just one religion that is guilty, but ALL religions that are against God and His Christ. Even in Foxe's Book of Martyrs, some people have totaled up the number of dead from before the time of the Inquisition through the 1700's, and the total has never been over 2 million. We have heard many times in the last 10 years, however, that Communist China may have killed that many in the last century themselves, even that many in a single decade. Islam has killed Christians for centuries, also. This WHORE, therefore, cannot be a single religious belief; it is all that is against Biblical Salvation through Christ.
Knowing that we have connected the revived Roman Empire to all previous references, how does this relate to the Euro? In Revelation 17 we read:
17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. 4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration. 7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. 10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. 13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. 14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. 15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues. 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. 17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
A city known for 7 Mountains sounds like Rome. Rio De Janeiro has 7 hills, but never ruled the world. Rome is known as the 'CITY OF 7 HILLS' not 7 mountains though, so let's not use that reference as more than a curiosity. What else do we read?
We read of 7 kings, not just 7 mountains. Kings must have Kingdoms, so there has to be a Kingdom associated with each of these 7 Kings.
In Revelation, right after chapter 3, we do NOT read of Christ's church on the Earth. That is because of the rapture, the Church will not be here. So, who is the rest of Revelation meant to speak of? If the New Testament was written to the world concerning the teachings of the Church, how the world was to be learning of who God is according to the New Dispensation given through Jesus Christ, the teachings of the New Testament must concern that which is for the whole world. This would include the nation of Israel and the rest of the unsaved world.
When we read of the Seven Kings, who have they been kings over? If something is mentioned in the Bible, there is probably a reference to some other part of the Bible that explains it. Since Revelation after chapter 3 is written to Israel and the rest of the unsaved world, these 7 KINGS must have a relation to Israel and the unsaved world. And, I believe they do.
What nations are mentioned in Scripture as being in charge of the world from God's perspective? Do these nations have anything to do with Israel? We see something quite interesting here, for if we list all nations that have ruled over God's people from the time Israel as a nation, into the time of the 7 year tribulation, we see the following nations in the order of their ruling: 1) EGYPT, for they ruled Israel for 400 years before the Exodus 2) ASSYRIA, for they first ruled Israel due to their disobedience while Judah was spared 3) BABYLON, for they ruled the Entire Jewish nation for 70 years 4) MEDIA-PERSIA, they ruled the Middle East and over Israel as a greater nation, for there was no Temple for Israel to speak to God Through or approach Him in the way He told them. 5) GREECE, as again as above 6) ROME, the People of the PRINCE that will come, Roman law crucified Christ, Rome held Israel in bondage, and it was the Romans who leveled Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70.
There are some who label the 7 Kingdoms this way: 1.) BABYLON, for Babylon was the first kingdom over men after Noah's Ark, and it is the origin of false worship after the Flood, and where sinful men first exercised the false religious belief in direct opposition to what God said. Since God is the God of all men, this could be one place to start. 2.) EGYPT, for this is after God instituted a Covenenant with Abraham, and promised the family of Abraham an Eternal Country, but due to Egypt's false religious belief, and the control they had over God's people, Israel, they are a major part in the direct control over those who God declared to be "His People" through a direct promise. 3) BABYLON, Again, for they ruled the Entire Jewish nation for 70 years, the people who were the direct recipients of God's Promise. 4) MEDIA-PERSIA, Again, for they ruled the Middle East and over Israel as a greater nation, for there was no Temple for Israel to speak to God Through or approach Him in the way He told them. They also were the leading kingdom of the false religions who are against God's word. 5) GREECE, as again as above. 6) ROME, Again, as the People of the PRINCE that will come, Roman law crucified Christ, Rome held Israel in bondage, and it was the Romans who leveled Jerusalem and the temple in AD 70. It was in Rome where the first major persecutions of the new people of Promise, Christians, we sent to die in the thousands. God's new Dispensation included those who believed in the Jewish Messiah, Jesus Christ, and it was Rome who led the charge because of their false religious paganism.
Either view leads to the identification of the final 7th kingdom: 7) THE REVIVED ROMAN EMPIRE
Note that in all the references mentioned before, a modified Roman Empire had to come to pass, it is where prophecy is taking us, and of the mentioning of these 7 mountains/7 Kings, we have no logical course to go other than to Rome as the 7th, for as we read:
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
The 5 kingdoms that are fallen, we see from above, the only two choices are: 1.)EGYPT/ASSYRIA/BABYLON/MEDIA-PERSIA/GREECE 2.)BABYLON/EGYPT/BABYLON/MEDIA-PERSIA/GREECE
Either view, the reign of the previous 5 nations are clearly over at the time of writing of the Book of Revelation around 80 A.D. However, at the time of writing, the 6th Kingdom, ROME, was still active and growing in power. Rome is the Kingdom called, "AND ONE IS" in Rev 17:10.
As verse 11 continues, the 8th, is of the 7, from all previous kingdoms, this is the Anti-Christ, and we have seen earlier that the Anti-Christ comes from ROME, that means the final kingdom that is in power before the Anti-Christ comes is ROME, that means the 7th kingdom/7th mountain is ROME, or, THE REVIVED ROMAN EMPIRE.
Knowing all this identifies who the 6th, 7th, and 8th Kingdoms are; let us take a look at who the WHORE OF BABYLON is.
First, the WHORE OF BABYLON sits upon many waters:
(Rev 17:1 KJV) And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
(Rev 17:2 KJV) With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
The WHORE represents all religion that is false. From Scripture, it is clear that the religious systems it represents are world wide, not just local or cultural.
After the rapture, more and more people believe this WHORE will be represented by the largest ecumenical movement we have ever seen. Bush's calling on Muslims to pray in the White House is a symbol of this. What has caused more pain in the last 3 years? Islam and their hatred of Israel and Christians, IE, religion. What has caused more pain and suffering over the centuries? Religion. Fights, arguments, wars, all over religion. Can't we all just get along?
The Anti-Christ will, after he is resurrected by the power of Satan after his death in the middle of the tribulation, will demand that he alone is worshipped. The people of the Earth are already sick of religion and bitter in-fighting, factions, sects and denominations. Yet, this WHORE will be in power, it will be hated. Only one religion today has the organization that could even begin to control/lead/unify all religions of the world, and that is Roman Catholicism.
After the rapture, all GENUINE Born Again believers will be gone, regardless of what Church they sit in on Sunday Morning. All that are left are those who will most likely believe in the Anti-Christ.
EVERY SINGLE CHURCH in the world will have people still sitting in the pews after the rapture, some will be here. These people and more are the ones who will make up this final religious belief before the Anti-Christ demands worship of him alone. Every includes Catholic, Baptist, Mormon, Episcopal, whatever.
Something will cause the world to hate this WHORE, this false religious belief. Because of the immense power of the Catholic Church, their organization, their connections, I believe they will be the organizational head of this world religious belief which contains ALL religions, Protestant, Catholic, Islamic, Shinto, Buddhist, whatever. After all, all religions teach the same things, right?
Let us remember: Believing in who leads the power in the tribulation does not lessen the responsibility of who joins in with them, and it is EVRY religion that joins in.
The connection with Rome and the EURO, the ecumenism that is demanded towards Islam after September 11, the apostasy of the Christian church today (Rock music, backslidden Christians), all point to these prophesies of Rome coming true, most likely in our lifetime. As that final mention said, the WHORE is that city that reigneth over the Kings of the Earth. Rome reigns religiously, politically, and militarily in this final government. Notice, the POPE himself welcomes this new EURO now, but ROME is NOT the final city to be the leader of the World Wide Ecumenical Movement!
What city is mentioned in Scripture when considering the origin of man centered worship? BABYLON. At some point, either in the tribulation itself or shortly before, there will be an ecumenical movement of unifying religion in a world wide peace movement, and that peace movement will have a religious undertone, and the final form of this undertone will be that Final One World Religion which specifically is called THE WHORE OF BABYLON. While all false religion falls under this title, in the tribulation, the absolute final form of THE WHORE will be seen with a worship center in BABYLON.
(Rev 18:1 KJV) And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
(Rev 18:2 KJV) And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
(Rev 18:3 KJV) For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
(Rev 18:4 KJV) And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
(Rev 18:5 KJV) For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.
(Rev 18:6 KJV) Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.
(Rev 18:7 KJV) How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
(Rev 18:8 KJV) Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.
(Rev 18:9 KJV) And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
(Rev 18:10 KJV) Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
While Babylon was a barren land for centuries, it was NEVER uninhabited completely. In fact, under Saddam Hussein, the city of Babylon was partially rebuilt, with Saddam making bricks cast with his image inside the brick, styling himself as a new Nebuchadnezzar.
Revelation 18 makes it clear that Babylon will be destroyed after the writing of the Book of Revelation itself. That means that the destruction of Babylon has to happen in the future.
God promised to destroy Babylon, yet the destruction mentioned in Jeremiah has not happened as yet:
(Jer 25:12 KJV) And it shall come to pass, when seventy years are accomplished, that I will punish the king of Babylon, and that nation, saith the LORD, for their iniquity, and the land of the Chaldeans, and will make it perpetual desolations.
(Jer 25:13 KJV) And I will bring upon that land all my words which I have pronounced against it, even all that is written in this book, which Jeremiah hath prophesied against all the nations.
(Jer 25:14 KJV) For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands.
(Jer 25:15 KJV) For thus saith the LORD God of Israel unto me; Take the wine cup of this fury at my hand, and cause all the nations, to whom I send thee, to drink it.
(Jer 25:16 KJV) And they shall drink, and be moved, and be mad, because of the sword that I will send among them.
(Jer 25:17 KJV) Then took I the cup at the LORD'S hand, and made all the nations to drink, unto whom the LORD had sent me:
Babylon still exists as a city, and according to Rev 18, will be an economic center of great wealth, and, when taken together with Rev 17, is to be the very center of worship for the world.
We must ask ourselves, has this prophesy been fulfilled??
(Jer 50:35 KJV) A sword is upon the Chaldeans, saith the LORD, and upon the inhabitants of Babylon, and upon her princes, and upon her wise men.
(Jer 50:36 KJV) A sword is upon the liars; and they shall dote: a sword is upon her mighty men; and they shall be dismayed.
(Jer 50:37 KJV) A sword is upon their horses, and upon their chariots, and upon all the mingled people that are in the midst of her; and they shall become as women: a sword is upon her treasures; and they shall be robbed.
(Jer 50:38 KJV) A drought is upon her waters; and they shall be dried up: for it is the land of graven images, and they are mad upon their idols.
(Jer 50:39 KJV) Therefore the wild beasts of the desert with the wild beasts of the islands shall dwell there, and the owls shall dwell therein: and it shall be no more inhabited for ever; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation.
(Jer 50:40 KJV) As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbor cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein.
(Jer 50:41 KJV) Behold, a people shall come from the north, and a great nation and many kings shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
(Jer 50:42 KJV) They shall hold the bow and the lance: they are cruel, and will not show mercy: their voice shall roar like the sea, and they shall ride upon horses, every one put in array, like a man to the battle, against thee, O daughter of Babylon.
(Jer 50:43 KJV) The king of Babylon hath heard the report of them, and his hands waxed feeble: anguish took hold of him, and pangs as of a woman in travail.
(Jer 50:44 KJV) Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan unto the habitation of the strong: but I will make them suddenly run away from her: and who is a chosen man, that I may appoint over her? for who is like me? and who will appoint me the time? and who is that shepherd that will stand before me?
(Jer 50:45 KJV) Therefore hear ye the counsel of the LORD, that he hath taken against Babylon; and his purposes, that he hath purposed against the land of the Chaldeans: Surely the least of the flock shall draw them out: surely he shall make their habitation desolate with them.
(Jer 50:46 KJV) At the noise of the taking of Babylon the earth is moved, and the cry is heard among the nations.
It is clear, it has NOT.
In the time to come, there will be a rebuilding of Babylon, and according to Rev 17, it will be a place of worship:
(Rev 17:1 KJV) And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will show unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:
(Rev 17:2 KJV) With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.
(Rev 17:3 KJV) So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
(Rev 17:4 KJV) And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
(Rev 17:5 KJV) And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
(Rev 17:6 KJV) And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
and according to Rev 18, it will also be a place of commerce. It will be rebuilt to a degree that the world has never seen, for we see it was always inhabited at some small point, and now with Saddam Hussein gone from Iraq, the final result of this war we see now will be a movement to rebuild Babylon at some future date.
Take heed here, we are seeing the beginnings of all this in our life time in a way that no one ever before had the opportunity to see. We have been given the time to repent before it happens, we have been given the time to straighten up!
THE "MARK" IS READY!
ARE YOU? (Part 2)
http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/world/mark2.htm
Follow the $$$Money
All of the individuals will be fitted with a capsule-shaped device known as the VeriChip. Made by Applied Digital Solutions (Palm Beach, Fla.),
the Verichip includes a 125-kHz RFID chip, an electromagnetic coil for transmitting data and a tuning capacitor, all in a silicone-and-glass enclosure measuring 11.1 x 2.1 mm.
The company, which is staking its future on the potential of implantable chips, has even trademarked the phrase "getting chipped" to describe the process of installing a human identification device.
Applied Digital executives believe that the market for such devices could eventually be enormous, ultimately reaching as high as $70 billion per year. The company is also proposing the VeriChip's use on implantable pacemakers, defibrillators and artificial joints, as a means of parts identification. "The human market for this technology could be huge," Bolton said.
RFID Chip
FDA approves implantable chip for humans
13 oct. 2004
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6237364/
Hello Mexico!
Mexican Officials Get Chipped
Wired News 13th of July 2004
Mexico's attorney general said on Monday he had had a microchip inserted under the skin of one of his arms to give him access to a new crime database and also enable him to be traced if he is ever abducted. Attorney General Rafael Macedo said a number of his staff had also been fitted with chips that will give them exclusive and secure access to a national, computerized database for crime investigators that went live on Monday.
Watch out Spain!
Get chipped, then charge without plastic — you are the card
USA TODAY 5/12/2004
For instance, there's the important and deeply scientific experiment being conducted among the barely clothed patrons of Baja Beach Club in Barcelona. They're getting electronic credit cards implanted under their skin. Beautiful club-goers have a problem: If you're going to wear a halter top and micro-skirt, there's not much of anywhere to put a wallet. And who wants to carry a purse when you're there to dance? Luckily, a company called VeriChip this year unveiled a solution based on radio-frequency identification (RFID) technology. It's a slender glass capsule about as long as a dime is wide. Inside sits a computer chip, which stores a unique code that can identify an individual — sort of an electronic Social Security number. The capsule also holds a tiny antenna, which can radio that code to a receiver many feet away. At the Baja Beach Club, Tuesdays are VeriChip implantation days. Stop in and a "nurse" — the club's word — uses a syringe to inject a VeriChip capsule under your skin.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/maney/2004-05-12-chip_x.htm?POE=click-refer
Watch out World!
VeriChip Pre-Registration
Get Chipped™
ARE YOU READY TO GET CHIPPED? READ ON - WARNING!
R. A. LaVigne
Apr 6, 2004
VeriChip, the world's first subdermal personal verification technology, announces a special, introductory pre-registration program. Sign up today to be among the first in the world to "Get Chipped."
http://www.adsx.com/prodservpart/verichippreregistration.html
Chipping the Children
BUSINESS WIRE October 01, 2003
PALM BEACH, Fla. -- Applied Digital Solutions, Inc. (Nasdaq: ADSX), an advanced technology development company, announced today that Solusat, the Company's exclusive distributor of VeriChip(TM) products and services in Mexico, has signed a cooperation agreement with Mexico's National Foundation for the Investigation of Lost and Kidnapped Children (Fundacion Nacional de Investigaciones de Ninos Robados y Desaparecidos).
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20031001005410&newsLang=en
Announcement at global security conference unveils syringe-injectable ID microchip
Yes, of course you're right about the mark of the beast. But don't you think it will be worth it if it will prevent Europe from having the problem of illegal Mexican gardeners?
Well, it all makes sense until the anti-christ demands it, though, ever think of that?
I almost see it as a necessity if it can control illegal immigration, identify criminals, find lost kids, whatever!
It becomes a problem only when you are opposed to the king who controls the software and laws regarding these chips/ID's/implants.
Wow....two BLT sandwiches and a coke......Doesn't mean a thing until after the rapture and Satan in the form of the beast, demands his mark be placed upon everyone. According to my Bible.
IT's not strictly true that National ID cards are new now for many European countries. France has had it for years, Sweden has it as well. The only glaring hole is in the Anglo-Saxon world (Britain, Ireland, the USA, Canada, New Zealand, Australia) and Japan. This is the official French government site on national identity cards or la carte nationale d'identité (CNI), in French only:
http://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/etrangers/vivre/cni/
Ping!
My longest was on the free trade argument and where it is taking us. :)
That's correct, but I wish to expand a bit more. It says the whore (false church), commits fornication with the kings of the earth. What is fornication or as some Bibles say "whoring", referring to the same thing. We read:
Numbers 15 39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes after which ye use to go a whoring:
Fornication or whoring specifically refers to not doing or going against YHWH's commandments. Note: Not man-made commandments but YHWH's commandments of Exodus 20:3-17).. There are many more verses all relating to the same definition.
I have never found anywhere in the Holy Bible, that a microchip is the Mark of the Beast nor the number 666. One's being denied the right to buy or sell because of a prior implantation of a micro-chip has nothing to do with salvation. The economic issue of buying and selling as well as religious issues will be determined, by the church/state controlled by Mother Babylon the Mother of Harlots (Rev 17:3 ".. woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, .. " & Rev. 17:5) as the result of one's either choosing to receive or deny the Mark of the Beast (WORSHIP - Rev. 14:9-11; 16:2) . The Mark of the Beast relates to salvation not to economics. Notice In Rev 16:2 that the ones who will receive YHWH's wrath are the ones who WORSHIP the Beast and his image. A micro-chip has nothing to do with worship, nor does the number 666. The Mark of the Beast is Satan's counterfeit of YHWH's true and symbolic Mark in the hand or the forehead. Are you aware that YHWH has a MARK in the hand or the forehead to distinguish his people as a special people? Due to this being a public forum, I don't want to abuse the system so I will end it here.
YHWH Bless You in your search for the TRUTH
The mark of the beast is entirely related to economics, for those who do not have it cannot buy or sell::
(Rev 13:16 KJV) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
(Rev 13:17 KJV) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
(Rev 13:18 KJV) Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.
It is also directly related to the Salvation of the lost during the 7 year trib because those who receive it CANNOT be saved.::
(Rev 14:9 KJV) And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
(Rev 14:10 KJV) The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
(Rev 14:11 KJV) And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
As for a reference to what Whoredoms means, it will expand on your statements, go to Ezekiel 23.
The sins of Aholibah and Aholah represent Israel and Judah, and their sins were that of not obeying and turning to God, and their unfaithfulness to God was referred to as Whoredoms.
After reading that, do a search for whoredoms and see how almost every sin of the nation of Israel and Judah is referred to in sexual terms.
I like your updates on the mark, and I see how people will accept this mark easily. Technology funnels in and people receive it for what it's worth to them. If the mark means eating to survive or paying your heating bill to stay warm, most all will receive it. Think about it ! what if a terrorist attack,say the size of an atomic bomb occurs? everybody will be required to get this mark. I don't even think that it will take an attack for the mark to come into fruition. I look at it this way, the worst thing that could happen is we starve to death or be put to death. Reality is Heaven, so I'm going to live until that day!
Yes, you are absolutely correct about sins being referred to in sexual terms. The Most Holy Word defines very specifically what constitutes sin. Sin is transgression of the law.
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. 1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
The 12 tribes which split into the two houses as you mention, had a long history of transgressing YHWH's Law. Because of their transgressions, YHWH referrs to them as a "whore", "adultress", etc.Your search suggestion is an excellent idea. Please look at all the verses relating to idolatry, bowing to images, breaking of YHWH's sabbath, etc.
Isa 57:3 But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the whore. Isa 57:4 Against whom do ye sport yourselves? against whom make ye a wide mouth, and draw out the tongue? are ye not children of transgression, a seed of falsehood, Isa 57:5 Enflaming yourselves with idols under every green tree, slaying the children in the valleys under the clifts of the rocks? Isa 57:6 Among the smooth stones of the stream is thy portion; they, they are thy lot: even to them hast thou poured a drink offering, thou hast offered a meat offering. Should I receive comfort in these?
The next verse is excellent example of how the symbolic Mark of the Beast in the forehead very clearly refers to a whore (Law or Commandment transgressor), not whether one can buy or sell. Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.
Here are a few more verses. Eze 16:2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,
Eze 16:15 But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was.
Eze 16:16 And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so.
Eze 16:17 Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, Eze 16:18 And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.
Eze 16:20 Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter,
Eze 16:22 And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood.
Eze 16:25 Thou hast built thy high place at every head of the way, and hast made thy beauty to be abhorred, and hast opened thy feet to every one that passed by, and multiplied thy whoredoms.
Eze 16:26 Thou hast also committed fornication with the Egyptians thy neighbours, great of flesh; and hast increased thy whoredoms, to provoke me to anger.
Eze 16:28 Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied.
Eze 16:29 Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith.
Eze 16:30 How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord GOD, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman;
Eze 16:31 In that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire;
Eze 16:32 But as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband! through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them;
Eze 16:38 And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy.
Eze 16:41 And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.
Eze 16:46 And thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters.
Eze 16:47 Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways.
2Ch 21:13 But hast walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and hast made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to go a whoring, like to the whoredoms of the house of Ahab, and also hast slain thy brethren of thy father's house, which were better than thyself:
Jer 3:7 And I said after she had done all these things, Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it.
Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
Jer 3:9 And it came to pass through the lightness of her whoredom, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
Jer 3:13 Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD.
Jer 3:21 A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the LORD their God.
Jer 3:25 We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the LORD our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and have not obeyed the voice of the LORD our God.
I'm a bit weary from posting the plethora of verses from the Most Holy Word of YHWH which define and describe a "whore" as symbolic to a people or church which disobeys YHWH's commandments as described from Holy Scripture. I know there are many, many more. We see that you like to make long posts and as a friendly challenge, I now challenge you to search and post all the rest of the Biblical verses which symbolically describing a "whore". The whore of Revelation 17:1, in following with Biblical principals as clearly seen in the above verses, is a church which has changed YHWH's commandment's and teaches men to follow false commandments of men.
I asked you in my previous post if you knew what is YHWH's Mark in the hand and the forehead. Since you did not answer me, I will provide you with the Biblical answer. Please read with me:
Deu 6:6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Deu 6:7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
These verses are referring to YHWH's 10 Commandments. Please read chapter 5 and 6 in it's entirety. And, as one can plainly see, these words are symbolic. One can not literally write those words in one's heart. You have to perform with a spirit of serving our Creator, with an open heart and doing the good works of this Divine Law. Doing the works of all 10 of them.
Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jam 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. Jam 2:18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
It's not multiple choice.. The Israelites used to use a tiflet (I probably misspelled it) tied around their wrist to remember YHWH's Mark or Law. YHWH's law in the 4th century has been changed by man. That false law (Satan's counterfeit) or man-made law is the Mark of the Beast. Please compare verse by verse Exodus 20:3-17 (YHWH's Mark) with the Mark of the Beast
http://www.christusrex.org/www1/CDHN/comm2.html#SABBATH With a sincere, pure heart and objective mentality, it is very clear to distinguish the Mark of YHWH and the MARK of the Beast from comparing these 2 sources. The 2nd commandment (verse 4) of the Most Holy Word has been omitted. The 4th commandment (verse 8)of the Most Holy Word has been changed from the 7th day (Saturday) to the 1st Day (Sunday - changed at Council of Nicea and Council of Laodecia). The 10th commandment (verse 17) of the Most Holy Word has been split in two to make 9 and 10 of the Catechism. The numbering sequences don't match. It's a complete disaster and a horrible abomination. The very last book of YHWH's Most Holy Word clearly defines who are the ones that will make it into the gates of the Holy City. It has nothing to do with buying and selling. Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
you said:
It is also directly related to the Salvation of the lost during the 7 year trib because those who receive it CANNOT be saved
That is correct. Those who have YHWH's MARK will be saved. The Mark of the Beast is a counterfeit of YHWH's. However, the Holy Scriptures do not teach that salvation is a function of being able to buy or sell. Salvation is a spiritual matter. Has nothing to do with a chip or the number 666 being stamped on your head. In regards to this, I have a very simplistic question. Why is it the word worship used in Revelation, referrs to and is used in conjunction with the term Mark of the Beast, the Image to the Beast, or to the Anti-Christ himself? For example;
Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
Rev 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand ,
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name .
It's very clear and plain to see that the Mark of the Beast has to do with WORSHIP . The Most Holy Word of YHWH says it. In contrast, let's look at how the word "worship" is used in reference to YHWH. Please read the following;
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea , and the fountains of waters.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea , and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. We see very plainly the connection or relation of the word worship with regards to the 4th commandment. Here's another verse that clearly portrays what the word WORSHIP refers to.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me.. " The Bible Sabbath is SATURDAY, not Sunday. In conclusion, look at: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_05071998_dies-domini_en.html ( 104 page papal letter calling for civil legislation of Sunday Worship. See Chap. IV paragraph 67 and Chap.V paragraph 79)
http://www.blessedhope.org/sunday/detroitnews7-7.htm
you said:
The sins of Aholibah and Aholah represent Israel and Judah, and their sins were that of not obeying and turning to God, and their unfaithfulness to God was referred to as Whoredoms.
Yes, that's true. They did not obey YHWH's commandments. They made and worshipped idols, just to mention one of the transgressions. Ezekiel referrs to these same two sisters.
Eze 16:46 And thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters.
May YHWH Bless you in your search for the TRUTH.
I think you have a small error there.
The whore's forehead in this passage refers to her brazeness, not any future reference to the mark received by unbelievers in the tribulation.
I don't know what you mean by "brazeness". I agree that the verse is not referring to "Mother Babylon, the great, the mother of Harlots and abominations of the earth", but the symbolic meaning of "whore's forehead" has the same connotation in Revelation or anywhere else in YHWH's Holy Word that uses this symbolic gesture. The Holy Word does not change or contradict itself. If it says one thing in one part, it will say the same thing in another part. In Jeremiah, the whore referred to specifically in Jer. 3:3 was the House of Judah who was described as a whore because of her idolatrous, commandment breaking practices. We see the exact same thing being portrayed with a church (specifically a false church) that breaks YHWH's commandments in Revelation. Is it mere coincidence that there appears to be a close relationship between the following passages:
Rev.17:5 "... "Mother Babylon, the great, the mother of Harlots and abominations of the earth .. " and
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/11/17/catholic.bishops.ap/ Catholic bishops join Christian alliance Wednesday, November 17, 2004 Posted: 11:33 AM EST (1633 GMT) WASHINGTON (AP) -- The nation's Roman Catholic bishops voted Wednesday to join a new alliance that would be the broadest Christian group ever formed in the United States, linking American evangelicals and Catholics in an ecumenical organization for the first time. and
Rome Rejects Equal Status by Simon Caldwell 'The Catholic Church has asserted its primacy over the Protestant churches. Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, wrote to all bishops' conferences to address misuse of the phrase 'sister churches' in ecumenical dialogue - asserting the Catholic Church's unique identity as 'mother' of all Christian Churches.He said clarification was needed because the phrase, which put the Catholic Church on an equal footing with other churches, had become 'prevalent in contemporary writings on ecumenism'. The term 'sister churches', he said, could only be used as to describe relationships between local Catholic churches, including the Orthodox, which had valid episcopates and Eucharist. ''The one, holy, catholic and apostolic universal church is not sister but 'mother' of all the churches,'' he said, adding: "There is but a single church, and therefore the plural term 'churches' can only refer to particular churches." The Cardinal said the phrase 'our two churches', used in The Gift of Authority, last year's statement by the Anglican-Roman Catholic International Commission, should also be avoided because it might imply there was more than one Church of Christ.'
you said:
After the rapture, all GENUINE Born Again believers will be gone, regardless of what Church they sit in on Sunday Morning.
The pre-tribulation rapture is a false doctrine. There is a million ways to Biblically disprove that false theory. It is another of Satan's grand schemes that gives someone a so called 2nd chance if they don't make it the first time. The carrot in front of the horses nose. The plagues, pestilences, climatic changes, etc. are all here and will get much worse and I haven't heard of a single person having dissappeared and been taken away. The Anti-Christ will be standing right before their face and they will never realize it because they will be waiting for the so called rapture.
People who are truly born again, are Sabbath Keepers (7th day Saturday commandment keepers). Sunday has always been a Pagan Holiday. Just like Christmas, easter (rabbits and eggs), Holloween (skeletons, ghosts), and on and on. How many so called "Christians" commemorate the Passover which is the 14th of Nisan on the Hebrew calendar in remembrance of the true day that our Saviour died? How many so called "Christians" commemorate the "Feast of Unleavened Bread" in remembrance of that night when our great, great ancestors of the 12 tribes of Israel left Egypt in the Exodus? How many so called "Christians" commemorate the birth of our Messiah during the "Atonement and Feast of Tabernacles"? How many so called "Christians" bow before statues when Ex. 20:5 says very specifically that it is not to be done. It's not so difficult to see that so called "Christians" are really Pagans. Is it any wonder we read:
Rev. 18:4 "... come out of her my people, that you be not partakers of her sins... "
May YHWH Bless you in your search for the TRUTH.
you err right from the start.
Just because a reference means one thing in one passage, it is not a mandatory rule it means the same thing everywhere else.
The law of first use would mean only FORHEAD, not mark, so, to follow the rule of FIRST USE, the Whore's forhead would have only a connection to the skin above her eyes.
(Exo 28:36 KJV) And thou shalt make a plate of pure gold, and grave upon it, like the engravings of a signet, HOLINESS TO THE LORD.
(Exo 28:37 KJV) And thou shalt put it on a blue lace, that it may be upon the mitre; upon the forefront of the mitre it shall be.
(Exo 28:38 KJV) And it shall be upon Aaron's forehead, that Aaron may bear the iniquity of the holy things, which the children of Israel shall hallow in all their holy gifts; and it shall be always upon his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD.
That is the first use of forehead, and it means a physical place. The location of the engraving was significant. It was to be to the front. I do find it significant, and I want to thank you for pointing it out, I would not have looked it up without your prodding, that the Mark on the forehead is also the place where Aaron's mitre engraving would be, also, that is curious.
However, that would not be something that is meant to Praise God, but to mock God, the Mark on the forehead, if connected to the engraving on Aaron's mitre, that is a curiousity I never caught on to before.
But you do seriously err when you state there is no pre-trib rapture, and also when you insist on a 7th day Sabbath for Believers after the ressurection, for there is no record of the believers in Jesus meeting on Saturday unless they were Jewish. The Gentiles AND the Jewish church met on the 1st day of the week.
You seem to be doing somethng that is great error: You are making the Bible fit your doctrine, instead of getting your doctrine from the Bible.
Pre-trib bump.
Yes, you're correct. Perhaps I should have clarified myself a bit more. It's a matter of how the term is used in the context of the verses of Scripture. I think you're aware of that and trying to be nit-picky. It is very obvious, to even the least astute student of the Word, that the "whore's forehead" is symbolism. The whore as has been admitted even by yourself, is a false religion. Your own words certainly are in accordance with Jeremiah chapter 3
Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.
The Whore was, I'll repeat one more time, as you can read for yourself in Jeremiah 3, Eze. 16, Isa. 57, and a jillion other places, a symbolic term referring to YHWH's commandment breaking, idolatrous religious practiceing, unshameful, House of Judah and House of Israel (Ephraim). Their mind, memory, thoughts, emotions, which all originate in the brain (symbolized by the forehead), was displayed by their practices (symbolized by works in the hand: making idols, killing and sacrificing their own children, etc.). Your examples of Ex. 28:36,37 are 100% literal. I think the least astute student of the Holy Word could figure that one out. With that in mind, you surely don't see anywhere in Scripture where the 2 houses (millions of people) walked around with plates embedded or hanging on their foreheads. I have presented Biblical proof and outside documentation to support every point. I feel like this is getting ridiculous now and I prefer to move on.
You said:
But you do seriously err when you state there is no pre-trib rapture.
A common term used by most pre-trib rapture believers is taken away. They use that term and don't even know what it means in the context used in scripture relating to passages that they themselves select to prove their argument. For example, most pre-tribbers are quick to point the following verse out:
Matthew 24:38,39 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe intered into the ark. And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. -----As is very clear, they refers very specifically to the evil people, the ones that were drinking,etc. and took them refers to their death, perish, not their rapture.
The ones that were left or remained was the righteous remnant. Noah and his family of 8 all together, were not "taken away" nor did they perish. They were the only ones that remained alive on the earth. Please read the following passage:
Genesis 7:23 And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
It's truly amazing how many people have been suckered and deceived into believing this Satanic doctrine will will take many unsuspecting people who listen only to their "all-knowing" pastor who has been to XYZ Theology Seminary for 8 years, etc.etc. and the whole time he's walking them right into the gates of hell. I will provide a couple of more verses, although there are hundreds, to demonstrate what and how the Bible uses the terms "left, remnant, taken away, perish, etc." Remember, as you will see in these verses, that taken away refers to those that die or perish and the ones that are left refers to the remnant that remained alive here on earth.
Exodus 14:11 And they said unto Moses, Because there were no graves in Egypt, hast thou taken us away to die in the wilderness? wherefore hast thou dealt thus with us, to carry us forth out of Egypt? Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. Isaiah 4:3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem: Ezekiel 14:22 Yet, behold, therein shall be left a remnant that shall be brought forth, both sons and daughters: behold, they shall come forth unto you, and ye shall see their way and their doings: and ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it.
There are as I said many more verses. You've demonstrated, by your posts, your zeal for research. In you research, I'm sure you will discover that most cases, I won't say all because of context, that what I have just pointed out is the TRUTH from the Most Holy Word.
You said:
when you insist on a 7th day Sabbath for Believers after the ressurection, for there is no record of the believers in Jesus meeting on Saturday unless they were Jewish. The Gentiles AND the Jewish church met on the 1st day of the week.
Not keeping YHWH's 7th day Sabbath by abstaining from works of buying, selling, or normal job routine for monitary gain, is breaking YHWH's Commandment and is a very serious offence in YHWH's eye's, not in man's eye's because it doesn't effect man, so why should man care if you break the TRUE Biblical Sabbath. I have a $1000.00 reward for anyone who can prove to me, strictly from the Holy Word, where it says that I am to keep Sunday Holy. Surely, one can meet on any day of the week to worship, but the commandment says specifically not to labor on that day and to remember (forehead- my notation) that day because he sanctified it. It's a special day set apart for YHWH's people. It is a distinguishing characteristic of his people and The Bible says so. Let's move on and rebut your statement by looking at all the verses that support Sabbath Keeping.
Acts 13
27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.
42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Acts 15
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.
Acts 17
2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
Acts 18
4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. 11 And he continued there a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them. (How many Sabbaths in 1 1/2 years?)
Acts 16
13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
Paul speaking specifically about the 7th day Sabbath says:
Hebrews 4
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
And what was that example of unbelief demonstrated by the Israelites in the Old Testament?
Exodus 16
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?
Ezekiel 20
19 I am the LORD your God; walk in my statutes, and keep my judgments, and do them;
20 And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the LORD your God.
21 Notwithstanding the children rebelled against me: they walked not in my statutes, neither kept my judgments to do them, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; they polluted my sabbaths: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them, to accomplish my anger against them in the wilderness.
Hebrews 3
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
Christ gave an example by always going to the synagogues and preaching on Sabbath.
Mark 6
2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
Luke 4
16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
31 And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days.
Christ referring to after his death until the "end of the world", never mentions any change of the Sabbath. To the contrary, he makes the following statement referring to the future after his death.
Matthew 24
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
Never do you find in the Bible that Christ is Lord of Sunday. Satan is lord of Sunday. Christ is Lord of the Sabbath.
Matthew 12
8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Luke 6
5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Matthew 15
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
4 For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
To see who really changed YHWH's Sabbath see the following:
http://yahweh.com/pages/pw3_96/1_396pg2.shtml The Christian celebration of Easter Council of Nicea
http://reluctant-messenger.com/council-of-laodicea.htm (Council of Laodecia) (See CanonXXIX)
http://biblelight.net/bssb-1443-1444.htm (The Council of Trent on the Change to Sunday Worship)
May YHWH Bless You in your search for the TRUTH.
If you believe in Jesus, Be perpared to go up.
It's Rome alright...But isn't the Vatican a "kingdom" as well?
Some religious scholars believe scripture refers to it as evolving into a "counterfeit" church/kingdom. Would Christ's church ever be cited as saying, "as long as we all believe in a 'god'"?
We are ALL vulnerable to corruption, aren't we?
I am not a traditional Protestant to say that theVatican is the Whore of Babylon, I think that Protestantism in the last century has proven its own unfaithfulness to be considered apostate.
While Protestantism never slaughtered people under their banner, there is no way that main stream protestantism is Biblical on the whole.
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