St. Anthony of Padua (West Orange, NJ) UPDATE!!!

Church Bulletins ^ | 11/25/04

[csbyrnes84]

You're just engaging in semantics. In fact if you want to bandy about the word heretic, it would probably be more accurate to say that 95% of so-called Catholics in the United States are heretics for denying essential doctrines of the faith.

How bout them apples?

[latae sententiae]

Questions:

1. Rome requires those assisting at Indult Masses be fully on board with the "doctrinal exactitude" of the New Mass and Vatican II. Does this describe you & the others left at St. Anthony's?

2. How does Perricone plan to "fix" the fact that he considers every confession & marriage that took place at the chapel from 1984 until until his arrival last month to be invalid, since Fr. Wickens & other priests who visited from time to time (including the SSPX) allegedly lacked the proper canonical faculties ?

3. If there are any children left who are preparing for Confirmation, does your new Archbishop plan to come & do the honors in the 1962 Rite, or are they being directed to the local Novus Ordo churches?

[csbyrnes84]

Here is my opinion on your questions

1. I believe that the new mass is valid, although in most cases when it is said it is illicit. The words of the consecration "This is my body," "This is my blood," are present and I believe that the intent of the priest to perform the consecration is there in most cases, therefore it is valid. It is therefore the unblemished sacrifice of the mass.

Vatican II proclaimed no new dogma, it was a pastoral council so I am not bound to accept any of it.

2. The Church supplies validity for marriages and confessions when people are unaware of the canonical situation. If you look at the Orthodox churches for instance they do have valid confessions and marriages because the church supplies validity for the ignorant Eastern Orthodox.

3. I am not sure whether Archbishop Myers will say the confirmations. It might be possible to get Bishop Rifan to do the confirmations if he is in the area, but whoever does them, they will certainly be done according to the 1962 liturgical books. No one will be directed to Novus Ordo confirmations or any other Novus Ordo sacraments.

[csbyrnes84]

Are you going to Fr. Murphy's mass in East Hanover or are you going to the Society's mass in the city? If you would be so kind can you update us on the situation? Is Fr. Murphy still planning on acquiring land so that he can build a chapel in the area? Is the SSPX thinking about building a chapel in North Jersey? How was the attendence at the mass they had a couple weeks ago in Fairfield?

[Mike Fieschko]

PMFBI.

1. Rome requires those assisting at Indult Masses be fully on board with the "doctrinal exactitude" of the New Mass and Vatican II.

Having attended at indult Masses in two dioceses here in the US, I've not run across this. It certainly wasn't asked of me, neither was I required to sign or otherwise adhere to any such requirement, and at one of the indults, I was a parishioner (signed up at the rectory, got the envelopes, etc.).

From your personal experience, what was the indult location with such a requirement, and how was it imposed and satisfied?

[latae sententiae]

Answer my questions, & I'll answer yours.

[hobbes1]

2. How does Perricone plan to "fix" the fact that he considers every confession & marriage that took place at the chapel from 1984 until until his arrival last month to be invalid, since Fr. Wickens & other priests who visited from time to time (including the SSPX) allegedly lacked the proper canonical faculties ?

Not invalid....Valid, but technically illicit. See the appropriate response as to SSPX priests.

[latae sententiae]

From your personal experience, what was the indult location with such a requirement

I have no personal experience w/ the Indult Mass, but anyone who does, does so under these conditions, at least implicitly.

...it be made publically clear beyond all ambiguity that such priests and their respective faithful in no way share the positions of those who call in question the legitimacy and doctrinal exactitude of the Roman Missal promulgated by Pope Paul VI in 1970.

This either is your position, or it is not, regardless of where you go to Mass.

[hobbes1]

3. If there are any children left who are preparing for Confirmation, does your new Archbishop plan to come & do the honors in the 1962 Rite, or are they being directed to the local Novus Ordo churches?

All Sacraments are to be in the 1962 Rite.

[latae sententiae]

Not invalid....Valid, but technically illicit

I was addressing specifically the question of confessions & marriages, for which a priest needs canonical faculties & jurisdiction to confer validly.

What's Perricone's remedy?

[latae sententiae]

All Sacraments are to be in the 1962 Rite.

So who will be coming to confirm the kids, provided there are any kids left around the appropriate age? That was my question. Please answer it.

[latae sententiae]

The Church supplies validity for marriages and confessions when people are unaware of the canonical situation

Were you arare of Fr. Wickens' canonical situation?

[csbyrnes84]

I did answer your questions, now tell us the news from Fr. Murphy's mass. :-)

[csbyrnes84]

The document which you linked to is the old 1984 indult. We are no longer under that indult, but rather the indult of 1988.

[Dog Gone]

Somewhat off-topic, but St. Anthony of Padua's tongue is on display in the cathedral of his name in Italy as a sacred relic. I'd never seen human jerky before, and it was a bit unsettling.

[latae sententiae]

You answered nothing, so neither will I.

[latae sententiae]

The document which you linked to is the old 1984 indult. We are no longer under that indult, but rather the indult of 1988.

Please post a link to the "Indult of 1988."

[csbyrnes84]

oh you're no fun, I did answer your question, hold on and I'll get the link.

[csbyrnes84]

Here's the 1988 Indult, Ecclesia Dei

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/motu_proprio/documents/hf_jp-ii_motu-proprio_02071988_ecclesia-dei_en.html