Oh, my achin' thumb.
Posted on 04/20/2005 8:59:20 AM PDT by Tantumergo
In the name of the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X, His Excellency Bishop Fellay, Superior General, welcomes the accession of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger to the Sovereign Pontificate. He sees there a gleam of hope that we may find a way out of the profound crisis which is shaking the Catholic Church, of which some aspects have been spoken of by the former Head for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, and quite recently so in his preaching on the occasion of the Stations of the Cross on Good Friday.
His Excellency Bishop Fellay implores Our Lord Jesus Christ, Head of the Mystical Body, that the two-thousand-year-old Tradition of the Church, forgotten and mistreated during the last forty years, may regain its place during this Pontificate, and that the Traditional Holy Mass may be re-established in all its rights, without restrictions.
Finally, the Superior General assures the Successor of Peter, Benedict XVI, of his prayers and those of all the Priestly Society of Saint Pius X for the considerable task which awaits him in order to restore all things in Christ.
April 19, 2005
+Bernard Fellay
Superior General
The second Assisi gathering, they took down all the crucifixes and Christian sacramentals from the monastery/convent, and had each religion desecrate the sacred space by entering into it and praying to their false gods separately. This was covered extensively by Christopher Ferrara, who was an eyewitness.
The second Assisi gathering, they differentiated that they prayed to their gods at the same time, but not TOGETHER. This was the distinguishing characteristic from the first one from a FIRSTHAND report. The first Assisi gathering had the Buddhists put Buddha on top of the tabernacle. Interestingly, a few years later, an earthquake split the place into pieces. But nobody wants to talk about that. No sirreee...
In any event, Pope Benedict XVI agrees these events were imprudent at best.
"We were not discussing you, I was saying, that one thing that sticks to me is how obedience to God is expressed by self immolation of our own will to his, and by extension to his Church and his Vicar. Christ did not say I give you the Keys to the Kingdom with caveats, he gave them to him, and he has passed them down through generations; today to Pope Benedict."
Absolutely. Agreed. And like John Paul II, in matters of faith and morals to which I am bound, I submit my will to his authority AND to the deposit of Faith. Amen, brother... So again, what is your charge or insinuation?
I have never seen a firsthand report for the First Assisi gathering. links please?
As if all of those things were impediments or stumbling blocks. I felt really wounded by that.
When I first heard about the prayers to the "Great Thumb", I was under the impression that it was actually some imagined corporeal thumb that was being prayed to. How come we always hear about the animists praying to the "Great Thumb" and not to "Almighty God" or the "all-seeing Lord"? I can't help but think that a false intention is being spread unintentionally.
On a side note, if you look at JPII's allocutions at Assisi, he seems to be under the impression that all the different religious leaders intended to pray to God. Check out the Buddhist "prayer". That's not even a prayer; why would he even invite them? Buddhists don't believe in any God, or in anything. How could they even pray?
Pope Benedict doesn't sound thrilled with the N.O. -
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In the July 2001 conference on the Liturgy at Fontgombault, Ratzinger said the following:
“A sizeable party of Catholic liturgists seems to have practically arrived at the conclusion that Luther, rather than Trent, was substantially right in the sixteenth century debate”, and added: “one can detect much the same position in the post-conciliar discussions on the priesthood.” He referred to Luther’s opinion that it is, “the most appalling horror and a damnable impiety to speak of the sacrifice of the Mass”. The Cardinal then said the following:
"It is only against this background of the effective denial of the authority of Trent, that the bitterness of the struggle against allowing the celebration of Mass according to the 1962 Missal, after the liturgical reform, can be understood. The possibility of so celebrating constitutes the strongest, and thus (for them) the most intolerable contradiction of the opinion of those who believe that the faith in the Eucharist formulated by Trent has lost its value."
"The serious nature of these theories comes from the fact that frequently they pass immediately into practice. The thesis according to which it is the community itself which is the subject of the Liturgy, serves as an authorisation to manipulate the Liturgy according to each individual’s understanding of it. So-called new discoveries and the forms which follow from them, are diffused with an astonishing rapidity and with a degree of conformity which has long ceased to exist where the norms of ecclesiastical authority are concerned. Theories, in the area of the Liturgy, are transformed rapidly today into practice, and practice, in turn, creates or destroys ways of behaving and thinking."
The Cardinal insisted that this is an intolerable situation: "One thing should be clear: the Liturgy must not be a terrain for experimenting with theological hypotheses. Too rapidly, in these last decades, the ideas of experts have entered into liturgical practice, often also by-passing ecclesiastical authority, through the channel of commissions which have been able to diffuse at an international level their 'consensus of the moment', and practically turn it into laws for liturgical activity. The Liturgy derives its greatness from what it is, not from what we make of it. Our participation is, of course, necessary, but as a means of inserting ourselves humbly into the spirit of the Liturgy, and of serving Him Who is the true subject of the Liturgy: Jesus Christ. The Liturgy is not an expression of the consciousness of a community which, in any case, is diffuse and changing. It is revelation received in faith ind prayer, and its measure is consequently the faith of the Church, in which revelation is received."
An average Christian without specialist liturgical formation would find it difficult to distinguish between a Mass sung in Latin according to the old Missal and a sung Latin Mass according to the new Missal. However, the difference between a liturgy celebrated faithfully according to the Missal of Paul VI and the reality of a vernacular liturgy celebrated with all the freedom and creativity that are possible - that difference can be enormous. - Cardinal Ratzinger, Address for the 10th Anniversary of "Ecclesia Dei", 24 October 1998
Dear Rutless,
Pope Benedict overturned the fraudulent excommunications of the SSPX Hawaii six. He doesn't view them as schismatic.
He's probably calling them right now to cut a deal.
I hope you will be obedient to the Holy Father. I read right here that people who are disobedient are schismatic.
We will pray for you.
Brush up your Latin. The N.O. is a novelty on its way out. Bet on it.
It's amazing how people don't want to give a simple answer to a simple question.
Does the Pope have the right to try to destroy the Church?
Yes or no?
The Holy Father has said in the past that he desires a "reform of the reform". Of course, he wasn't Pope then. We'll see in five years.
And, my Latin's fine :)
He has already said he will unite all of Christ's followers. Take a look at the statement issued today.
But, of course, I have to say again, lest I should be misunderstood, that when I speak of Conscience, I mean conscience truly so called. When it has the right of opposing the supreme, though not infallible Authority of the Pope, it must be something more than that miserable counterfeit which, as I have said above, now goes by the name. If in a particular case it is to be taken as a sacred and sovereign monitor, its dictate, in order to prevail against the voice of the Pope, must follow upon serious thought, prayer, and all available means of arriving at a right judgment on the matter in question. And further, obedience to the Pope is what is called "in possession;" that is, the onus probandi of establishing a case against him lies, as in all cases of exception, on the side of conscience. Unless a man is able to say to himself, as in the Presence of God, that he must not, and dare not, act upon the Papal injunction, he is bound to obey it, and would commit a great sin in disobeying it. Primâ facie it is his bounden duty, even from a sentiment of loyalty, to believe the Pope right and to act accordingly. He must vanquish that mean, ungenerous, selfish, vulgar spirit of his nature, which, at the very first rumour of a command, places itself in opposition to the Superior who gives it, asks itself whether he is not exceeding his right, and rejoices, in a moral and practical matter to commence with scepticism. (Ven. John H. Newman, Letter to the Duke of Norfolk, pp. 257-258)
If I send them to you, they won't be firsthand.
I'm not bothering to read any answer other than "yes" or "no"
And I'm waiting for Dominick to answer.
The excommunications of the "Hawaii 6" were indeed "fraudulent" as you say, but it's a mistake to take them as a declaration opposing Ecclesia Dei. Receiving confirmation from a schismatic bishop, or attending Masses of a schismatic priest, cannot make someone schismatic as the Bishop claimed. That makes no more sense than saying that JPII was schismatic because he participated in the Divine Office with schismatic Orthodox.
In any case, it would seem that there will be little reason to worry about the "schismatic" status of the Society in a few months. The situation of the faithful is at most virtual schism (cfr: "According to Fr. Gerald Murray in his interview", etc.), anyway, not real schism.
Why do you need his answer? You know he doesn't think that the Pope has a right to "destroy the Church" (no one does). Of course, he doesn't think that the Pope is "destroy[ing] the Church"...
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