Posted on 05/02/2005 12:03:36 PM PDT by murphE
I have no idea why you are bringing up "apparition chasers" in response to my posting about an approved apparition in Akita, Japan. I have noticed you are the one who has displayed "nastiness" on this thread, and other threads.
You haven't answered, my previous question, why do you have such an intense hatred of tradition?
So you equate a temporary, time restricted "vacancy" due to the death of the pope with the so-called "decades" of "anti-popes" that you and your ilk attribute to the Church?
You can't see the difference in implication?
That's dangerously close to asserting that "so goes the world, so goes the Church".
The Church exists in spite of the world. The stronger the Church - the stronger the things of God - the more alienated becomes "the world". We're called to reject "the world" - to live in it, not by it.
No, it's the exact opposite. I fail to see any sense in your assertion that opposites are "dangerously close".
When have I ever mentioned "decades" of "antipopes"?
looks whos whining and nitpicking.
I hasten to recall the heresy of Berengarius, who was only re-admitted to the Church after concretely and unequivocally declaring he was utterly wrong about his rejection of transubstantiation. If you read the actual confession, the Church makes no concession on its beliefs.
In bringing Berengarius back into the fold, the Church indeed was acting in the spirit of "ecumenism", but the end result could not be anything but "Dear Berengarius, wipe your feet when you come back in the door."
"Ecumenism" is only a dirty word because it's mistaken for "pluralism". Ecumenism is the spirit of seeking out the lost sheep, not bending to their whims or compromising the doctrines of the Church. Ecumenism is a primary calling of the Church since it was a primary calling of Jesus to "leave the 99 to go and find the one".
No he is speaking of your comment:
"If the seat of Rome is "vacant" or in need of "reproval", then the gates of hell have prevailed"
In which you stated as much, perhaps you didn't mean what you said. And what exactly do you mean by "your ilk"?
"Requests"? How about demands! Because if those "requests" are not met, we all know that this will not be accepted graciously, don't we?
Here's the bottom line. If you and your buddies wish to criticise the Pope, I for one, will defend him. If you take it upon yourself to trash his work and ministry, there will be incoming.
In exactly the same way you leap to defend excommunicated nobodies like Bob Williamson and Barney Fellay, I'll defend the Holy Father.
You can make "requests" and everyone else can shut the hell up? I don't think so.
Why, then, do you support the "reproval" of the Pope? If the pope needs to be rebuked, you are declaring that what he "looses" on earth has not been "loosed" in heaven, which implies that he has not been given the keys to the kingdom.
It's black and white. If you have no confidence in the Pope, you have no confidence in the words of Christ.
"your ilk" = those who believe they are holier than the Church.
When I went to Mass as a child I was always in awe of the Latin Mass as it lent some measure of mystery and elegance even if at an older age I learned Latin and knew the words anyway. They still sound better in Latin than in English...and an RC mass in German is enough to call out the riot squad. While we still mix and match our Catholic and Jewish holidays and services, I just don't like Christmas Eve in English, so we don't go anymore.
And my response to Grey Ghost is that the only way to contest my statement was to take it out of context. By HIS definition, we're all sede vacantists when the Pope dies. That's not the common interpretation of the term, and he knows what I meant when I said it.
You imply that the decay of the Church caused the decay of the world. That's blasphemy. You're asserting that the condition of the world is commensurate with the condition of the Church, as if the Church and the world are interdependent. They are not. The world becomes more powerful when it rejects the Church. The Church becomes more powerful when it rejects the world. The Church achieved its greatest power on Good Friday while the Roman Empire independently conquered the globe.
I know nothing of the sort and if I were you I would not presume to judge the intentions of the two authors of this letter.
I also find it interesting that although there is nothing in this letter in regard to SSPX, or Bishops Fellay and Williamson, people including yourself cannot help themselves but to bring to bring it up. I once stated that instead of trying to answer traditional Catholic arguments, concilliar Catholics just try to shut down the discussion by making sweeping accusations against traditional Catholics and inciting flame wars, a statement to which you vehemently disagreed. If this is not true, why don't you post any specific objections you have to what is said in this letter instead of bringing up the SSPX, which is not the subject and which will surely incite anger amongst the readers and end any fruitful discussion.
Now, you are just flat out lying about what I have said.
Prove this assertion please.
Your statement wasn't taken out of context, re read it; it was pretty incoherent. And what did you mean by 'your ilk'? You sure are throwing a lot of accusations and insults around.
When the visionary becomes bigger than the vision, then you know it's not of God. Some will say, "what about Sr. Lucia of Fatima - didn't she have a cult of personality?" And I answer, "Sr. Lucia became a cloistered nun, as far from the spotlight as humanly possible without ceasing to exist. Hers was no more a cult of personality than Mother Theresa."
The goal of Satan is to divide the church. There can be no worse fruit than disobedience to the Church. Garbandal and Medjugorje are extremely dangerous frauds. There's no reason to go to either place when Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadalupe are authenticated miraculous sites much more worthy of pilgrimage.
Repeating:
"your ilk" = you, who consider yourself holier than the Church.
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