Posted on 08/23/2005 11:39:12 AM PDT by topcat54
Been watching Jack and Rexella again?
You ever take a peek at 'Prophecy Movies?" Damn creepy, and not the way they were intended to be creepy!
Its not really the Last Days or even End Times just a
changing of the guard so to speak there is only a change from old to new, Unfortunately escatologists must glamorize their subject but hey its got some peoples attention
Works for me. I still don't care for the giddiness, though.
Not yet. It will be literal when it happens. I do not know how it will play out, will Jerusalem be taken from Israel, or will Israel give it away. Once again, Israel demonstrates their blindness, thus signifying that the times of the gentiles has not ended.
There is no reason to be giddy it seems like more and more
trouble erupts daily I think the rapture crowd has been sold a bill of goods and will be dissapointed maybe even
stop believing
I agree the giddiness is misplaced and downright creepy.
As for me, I got my Bible and my good buddy St. Augustine's Confessions. I'm good to go. ;-)
They'll never build a temple on the moon. Van Allen Belts, dontcha know.
Topcat: What are "real Jews" and where does that leave Christians?
Exactly. I can't fathom these ideas in Christians. It's like we're reading different Scripture altogether.
"In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." -- Hebrews 8:13
The entire reason for Christ's birth, death and resurrection is the simple fact that man cannot keep God's law, no matter how hard he tries. That's why he needs a Savior, mercifully ordained from before the foundation of the world.
None of this is a surprise to God. It's the way it's supposed to be. "The Word became flesh..."
As God wills.
I don’t wish to be hard on the Jews because I believe we underestimate our depravity simply because it engulfs us and everything around us is distorted by it. Man has a history of running after evil. Cain slew Able. The sons of God married the sons of men and God wiped out mankind except Noah. No sooner were they off the boat then Canaan sinned. God revealed Himself to Abraham but that didn’t stop Abraham from lying about his wife. God pulled Israel out of Egypt but they quickly were worshipping golden calves. God rose up the nation of Israel but 2000 years later they were claiming the “queen of heaven” as their god.
The Lord Jesus and His creation of the church is the final work in this continuing saga of God gracious redemption and man’s total depravity. There are no different “ages”. Where I would disagree with topcat, as we can tell from church history it still mirrors biblical problems of God’s redemption due to man’s depravity. The indwelling of God’s Holy Spirit is a bandage on the souls of depraved men until we are glorified.
It’s my belief we are nearing the end and that our Lord Jesus will return “like a thief in the night”(but so did Paul). One day everything will be “normal”, the next moment BAM that’s it. There won’t be some raptured with some remaining under a 1000 year rule. I’m not well verse to know where our Lord Jesus will reign; if there will be an earthly kingdom, a heavenly kingdom or what. All I do know is that everything around us is corrupted, cursed and distorted including the ground we walk on. While our Lord Jesus does rein on earth now I feel it is unlikely that our Holy God will physically rein in such a place for eternity.
Dispensational Christians treat Jews like an eschatological canary in a cage, such as the old coal miners would take with them into the mines to signal when things are bad. They figure when things start going bad for Jews/Israel, then Jesus must be just about to appear to rapture the Christians out and leave the Jews to suffer another holocaust.
It's always a bad break for the canary.
Contrast this with the Biblical view of God's kingdom being built up over time from both Jews and gentiles into one glorius new man -- a new body of Christ. Jews are not our spiritual canaries. They need to receive the gospel of Christ and return to the root, to their father Abraham, so that we might be one together.
You make it sound as if dispensationalists or others who have certain eschatological beliefs are just making up their point of view out of whole cloth. There is a great amount of biblical support for what they believe. The events in the last chapters of Zechariah have not happened, and the unfortunate holocaust described in Chapter 13 hasn't either.
You forgot to add, "according to the dispensational theory."
This is my interpretation of what the book of Hebrews is all about. Leave it to God to throw in an evangelistic message to the Jews in His Holy Word.
The book of Hebrews is a most difficult one for the dispensationalist. In the context of a book written to Jews by a Jew describing the most excellent way of Jesus Christ, we find no mention of the things that are important to dispensationalist eschatology.
The plain message of Hebrews is that all those old covenant images -- the temple, the priesthood, the sacrifices, etc, -- all those things that were important to the cultic life of Israel, were all pointers to the anti-type, Jesus Christ. The old covenant was fading away (8:13) even as the new was being established. The temple, etc were all about to be destroyed finally.
Now, one would think that if the dispensational theory about a rebuilt temple and reinstituted scarifies were correct that the writer would have said something to give hope and expectation to the Jews of that day and every day since. But he does not. He speaks only of the temporary nature of those types, and the finality of their passing away.
There is a great amount of biblical support for what they believe.
What they do is start with a premise, then pull snippets of Scripure out, twist it, and make it dance to their tune. They read into Scripture what they want it to say, instead of Scripture speaking for all it's worth on it's own.
Uh, because it sells lots and lots of books that movies can be made from fattening the bank accounts of the sophists?
Just a guess. :-)
What is your interpretation of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12? Or Zechariah, Chapters 12-14? It is quite plain to any reader of the Bible that cataclysmic events still lie ahead.
All of the saints were looking for the eminent return of Christ. Paul is correcting some who were troubling saints by teaching that Jesus had already returned. Paul is also telling the saints about the coming persecutions of Nero, the "falling away". Apostasy entered the church very quickly when those persecutions came.
I would recommend you study church history, especially early church history where you find much of Revelation fulfilled in the early days of the Church, except the 2nd Coming, Resurrection and Judgment.
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