Posted on 08/30/2005 7:57:24 PM PDT by Salvation
Spokane, Aug. 30, 2005 (CNA) - Bishop William Skylstad of Spokane, Washington has announced that his diocese will appeal a federal court ruling which, on Friday, declared all parishes in the diocese assets which can be liquidated to pay for claims by alleged victims of sexual abuse by priests.
Bishop Skylstad, who also holds the post of president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, said in a statement released from Eastern Europe, where he is currently traveling, that
"The court's decision has national consequences.”
“Its impact”, he said, “will be felt not just by Catholic communities but by many other church communities of any denomination, of any faith expression."
In December of last year, the diocese filed for Chapter 11 Bankruptcy protection citing $11.1 million in assets and $83.1 million in liabilities from abuse victims seeking compensation.
Diocesan parishes and schools were not included in that figure as, according to Canon Law, the bishop is only steward of them--the parishes themselves control their own actual assets.
U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Patricia Williams’ Friday decision however, ignores this fact, opining that civil property laws supersede Church law.
In her decision, Williams wrote, "It is not a violation of the First Amendment to apply federal bankruptcy law to identify and define property of the bankruptcy estate even though the Chapter 11 debtor is a religious organization."
Lawyers for, and supporters of the diocese however, disagree.
Bishop Skylstad wrote that he would "appeal this decision because we have a responsibility not only to victims but to the generations of parishioners ... who have given so generously of themselves" to build up the church in eastern Washington.
William Donahue, president of the Catholic League, called the ruling “outrageous,” saying that “At a minimum, separation of church and state means that sitting judges have no right to make determinations regarding the organizational chart of the Catholic Church. But that is exactly what’s being done.”
“By declaring all diocesan assets fair game for every steeple-chasing lawyer,” he continued, “a green light has been given to plunder the resources of the Catholic Church.”
I will link the previous thread.
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Looks like Donahue has the most brains around!
**William Donahue, president of the Catholic League, called the ruling “outrageous,” saying that “At a minimum, separation of church and state means that sitting judges have no right to make determinations regarding the organizational chart of the Catholic Church. But that is exactly what’s being done.”
“By declaring all diocesan assets fair game for every steeple-chasing lawyer,” he continued, “a green light has been given to plunder the resources of the Catholic Church.”**
This strikes me as a serious violation of the 1st amendment.
There can be no law establishing a state religion or denying free exercise. They are different realms, and one cannot direct the other.
For the same reason that churches historically were able (should be able still?) to provide sanctuary and not be invaded by civil authorities -- the different realms that define religion and civil government -- the government should be prevented from taking church assets.
Also, I would bet that the parishes are incorporated. The priests committed personal crimes, not corporate crimes.
Check out the thread about the Catholic League President, William Donahue. Exactly what he says.
If they don't want bankruptcy law to apply for purposes of determining what is an asset of the estate, they probably shouldn't have filed for Chapter 11 in the first place.
It's my recollection that they could not have had an involuntary petition filed against them.
They invited themselves to this party. It's a little late to be complaining about what is being served. They need to get busy with some serious settlement negotiations. Most plaintiffs prefer cash to property anyway.
Portland Archdiocese Names Parishioners As Defendants In Sex-Abuse Bankruptcy Case
Bankruptcy judge rules parish assets available to victims [Spokane Diocese]
Diocese [Spokane] to appeal decision that parishes can be liquidated; church/state separation
Catholic League president: Church must start playing hardball against victimization
Where is Donohue's thread?
Seems to me that the judge is right.
Let's look at an analogy.
A big corporation, say a car maker, makes cars that it knows will explode in a rear end crash. The crashes start happening, and people's families start being burnt up. The car maker stonewalls. It hides its own internal evidence on the subject. It denies everything, stonewalls, and then finally gets hit with a whopping fine and punitive damages. It's a multi-billion dollar organization, but it claims that only its "Gremlin" division, which has few assets, can be required to pay for the crime. It's "Demon" and "Monster" divisions, both with huge assets, are - according to it - off limits to the judgment, because the presidents in charge of those separate divisions (of the same overall company) are not in the same corporate chain of command.
The company may even wring its hands in a sympathy ploy, that "all those innocent stockholders who did nothing wrong will get hurt". Yes, they will. And none of that would have happened had the company not hid its own data and not put out cars that it knew would be likely to explode.
Alright, now, let's turn back to the Catholic Church.
We Catholics are always so proud, and justly so, about how we are one great Church, reaching back across the sea to Rome and the Vatican.
Our priests molested children, lots of children, and ruined a lot of lines. But for the mercy of God on the poor damaged souls of the young, those children whose experiences of sexual abuse led to a lifetime of sexual obsession may well have been condemned to Hell by what the priests taught them. The Bishops knew. They had the reports. And they kept cycling these priests around. They covered up. They hid it. They allowed the rape of the innocents to go on, and abetted it with their silence.
So NOW, all of a sudden, when the Church is being called to account in the only crude way the law knows how: by hitting the Church for MONEY, all of a sudden we are a bunch of Baptists? All of a sudden we are not one organic unit, but instead a bunch of independent little corporations, completely independent, and therefore it is "unjust" to reach in and liquidate those assets.
Utter nonsense!
Hogwash!
Can the Bishop fire the officials in those organizations? Can the Pope?
Yes.
Then it's one organization, and we should have none of this pathetic dawdling when it comes to paying out money -hard money - for the crimes and sins of our church. Making the Church poor, really poor, as penance for its monstrous sins will not hurt the spiritual quality of the Church at all. Indeed, it may very well HELP it. Trying to erect specious firewalls and hiding assets the same way that the Bishops hid pedophile priests for decades demonstrates the same mentality.
The Church was wrong. Stripping the Church of its worldly assets will be humiliating, but it is the proper penance for mortal sins. The penalties are just, the money should be paid. And if that means the loss of treasured assets, then so be it. The Church is not the building. It is the visible body of God on Earth.
We sing the hymn: "We are not divided, all one body we..."
And it is time we stood by our words.
Note that the lines of responsibility do not stop at the diocese. The Vatican is also responsible, and to the extent the diocese cannot pay, the Vatican should be imposed upon to answer for the crimes of its subalterns.
That is justice. It is moral. It is the correct thing to do.
Whining about money is unseemly.
Suck it up.
Pay.
Restructure the Church so it does not happen again.
And move on.
Seems to me that the judge is right.
Let's look at an analogy.
A big corporation, say a car maker, makes cars that it knows will explode in a rear end crash. The crashes start happening, and people's families start being burnt up. The car maker stonewalls. It hides its own internal evidence on the subject. It denies everything, stonewalls, and then finally gets hit with a whopping fine and punitive damages. It's a multi-billion dollar organization, but it claims that only its "Gremlin" division, which has few assets, can be required to pay for the crime. It's "Demon" and "Monster" divisions, both with huge assets, are - according to it - off limits to the judgment, because the presidents in charge of those separate divisions (of the same overall company) are not in the same corporate chain of command.
The company may even wring its hands in a sympathy ploy, that "all those innocent stockholders who did nothing wrong will get hurt". Yes, they will. And none of that would have happened had the company not hid its own data and not put out cars that it knew would be likely to explode.
Alright, now, let's turn back to the Catholic Church.
We Catholics are always so proud, and justly so, about how we are one great Church, reaching back across the sea to Rome and the Vatican.
Our priests molested children, lots of children, and ruined a lot of lines. But for the mercy of God on the poor damaged souls of the young, those children whose experiences of sexual abuse led to a lifetime of sexual obsession may well have been condemned to Hell by what the priests taught them. The Bishops knew. They had the reports. And they kept cycling these priests around. They covered up. They hid it. They allowed the rape of the innocents to go on, and abetted it with their silence.
So NOW, all of a sudden, when the Church is being called to account in the only crude way the law knows how: by hitting the Church for MONEY, all of a sudden we are a bunch of Baptists? All of a sudden we are not one organic unit, but instead a bunch of independent little corporations, completely independent, and therefore it is "unjust" to reach in and liquidate those assets.
Utter nonsense!
Hogwash!
Can the Bishop fire the officials in those organizations? Can the Pope?
Yes.
Then it's one organization, and we should have none of this pathetic dawdling when it comes to paying out money -hard money - for the crimes and sins of our church. Making the Church poor, really poor, as penance for its monstrous sins will not hurt the spiritual quality of the Church at all. Indeed, it may very well HELP it. Trying to erect specious firewalls and hiding assets the same way that the Bishops hid pedophile priests for decades demonstrates the same mentality.
The Church was wrong. Stripping the Church of its worldly assets will be humiliating, but it is the proper penance for mortal sins. The penalties are just, the money should be paid. And if that means the loss of treasured assets, then so be it. The Church is not the building. It is the visible body of God on Earth.
We sing the hymn: "We are not divided, all one body we..."
And it is time we stood by our words.
Note that the lines of responsibility do not stop at the diocese. The Vatican is also responsible, and to the extent the diocese cannot pay, the Vatican should be imposed upon to answer for the crimes of its subalterns.
That is justice. It is moral. It is the correct thing to do.
Whining about money is unseemly.
Suck it up.
Pay.
Restructure the Church so it does not happen again.
And move on.
**Restructure the Church so it does not happen again. **
Amen to that!
and it's bullshYt, if I may say so.
Be strong, Church!
**this, of course, is exactly what that bright mind, whereever it is, that conceives of theft, evil, deceit and destruction, has wanted all along.**
There you go, talking about the Left again! LOL!
Ha ha, but just what mind do you think is behind the left?
And it really isn't very funny either!
But we know who wins! Have you ever read "That Hideous Strength" by C.S. Lewis? MUST READ. It's fun, at least at the moment, to watch the left go up in flames right before our eyes. The problem is, we all wind up getting burned.
So a judge has ruled that the way the Catholic Church has incorporated itself with regard to the property under its control makes it liable for any and all claims, and can, in fact, dispose of that property to pay such claims ~ is this news?
I live in the Spokane Diocese, so I read through the 57 page decision. Two points stood out. First, the Diocese argued in TWO recent legal proceedings that the Bishop owned parish properties. It violates "judicial estoppel" to argue contrary positions in different cases. Second, all of the incorporation papers, dating back to 1915, plus the property deeds, name the Diocese as owner. Two law professor friends say that this decision will almost certainly NOT be overturned.
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