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Posted on 11/17/2005 8:56:40 AM PST by Petrosius
And bam... there you were to apply it, perfectly :~D
Good job honey :~D
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pingy
> Does that make cloning...more or less what was being done when the uruk-hai were being made, satan's work?
Bingo! Creation was God's domain. Morgoth's attempts at "creation" were a terrible distortion of the God-given Elven beauty... a caricature at best.
> I read that Tolkien denied he was trying to symbolize Christ in LOTR.
I don't believe he denied any symbolism. I think he denied that the work was allegory, which is a particular form of literary symbolism in which a one-to-one correspondence exists between reality and the allegorical work.
BWAAHAHAHAHA!!
Been a while since we've had ring-ping. Thanks.
THanks for the laugh.
Did you know that C.S. Lewis (Narnia fame) and J.R.R. Tolkien were good friends?
Yes!
I had first read LOTR when I was 10 in 1964; I still have the First Edition DELL paperbacks tucked away in a box in a closet. I've read it at least 15 times over the years. It wasn't until much later that I began reading Lewis and discovered how their two lives were intertwined.
While attempting to express similar Christian concepts through allegory and parable their writing styles are different. I enjoy Tolkien's naturalistic approach more; Lewis is a bit too hung up on getting the logic right such that he comes off (at least in his non-Naria philosophical essays) as a bit more obtuse and unsettling. Tolkien to me feels more like a kindly old Uncle who is more comfortable in his Faith while Lewis is more of a stern father-figure who is firey in his Evangelicism.........JMHO.
Me too, me too! :-) - except my were the Ballantine editions. Loved the cover art that allowed you to put the books side-by-side together into a single picture. In fact, I have a poster of that artwork rolled up in my storage area.
I've read it at least 15 times over the years. It wasn't until much later that I began reading Lewis and discovered how their two lives were intertwined.
Right with ya again. :-)
While attempting to express similar Christian concepts through allegory and parable their writing styles are different. I enjoy Tolkien's naturalistic approach more; Lewis is a bit too hung up on getting the logic right such that he comes off (at least in his non-Naria philosophical essays) as a bit more obtuse and unsettling. Tolkien to me feels more like a kindly old Uncle who is more comfortable in his Faith while Lewis is more of a stern father-figure who is firey in his Evangelicism.........JMHO.
I like your analysis. :-)
Note: The books I disliked were the The "Prelandria" Series.
"....I disliked were the The "Prelandria" Series...."
Me too.
'Bus Stop' by the HOLLIES
http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/getsome.org/guitar/olga/main/h/hollies/bus_stop.crd
...and 'When you say Nothing at All' by Allison Krauss
http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/www.roughstock.com/cowpie/cowpie-songs/k/krauss_alison/when_you_say_nothing_at_all.crd
.....I've got 'cheat sheets' but the chord changes go by so quickly when you're onstage performing that its not good to go up there totally cold. Besides, I'm a perfectionist and like putting on a good show! [LOL]
Maybe if we call it a moat and throw in some gators we'll keep the loonies out of the Shire. ;-)
This is a long running argument. Tolkein and Lewis were both members of a "fraternity" (in the purest sense) of Oxford literary types, mostly professors, who were all very specifically and overtly Christian. The group was a rarity at Oxford, which was similar to most current liberal schools in promoting atheism as the official dogma.
Their writings were intentionally meant to illustrate Christian themes but, to varying degrees, also meant to avoid speaking of Christ or Church. They wanted to illustrate the truths embodied in Christ and Christianity without making reference to either in order to draw in a wider audience and expose them to fundamental concepts first, then bring Christ in later.
There is a fairly compellig thread from about 2 years ago talking about a college course that argues the J K Rowling is attempting to carry on this tradition with the Harry Potter series.
Do a google on "the inklings" combined with other terms like Lewis, Tolkein or Christian and you'll find some interesting (though often contradictory) information. I am personally fascinated by George MacDonald (1824-1905), who was a predecessor and something of an inspiration for the Inklings group that included Lewis and Tolkein. The stories of his that I've read are very interesting.
Allegories or parallels in LOTR? There are others:
Superman or Jesus?
Not of this world.
Came to Earth as a baby.
Miraculous powers.
Destroying evil, and saving lives in the process.
Immortal
Santa or Jesus?
Comes from far away.
Bringing gifts.
He knows when you are sleeping, knows when you're awake.
Knows if you've been bad or good.
Immortal
The Wizard of OZ or Pilgrim's Progress?
Starting a new life as a stranger dwelling in a strange land.
A fork in the road.
The goal, a magnificent city.
A burden to bear.
Now abideth faith (brain), hope (courage), and charity or love (a heart).
Numerous trials attempt to discourage or even destroy.
Water is useful to destroy evil.
Stay the course.
The burden is lifted after the victorious journey.
Etc.
I'm sure those can be added to.
Also, a lot of folks have made money off 'parallels'. Seems it is a reliable system for making a profit.
But not always a good idea, IMO. Because, if His NAME is left out, who is getting the glory?
read later
Sounds right. Tolkien was a comfortable Catholic, but Lewis was a convert. Someone new to the faith would be likely to be more foreceful about it.
Wow, "Bus Stop" is a blast from the past! I was a teenager when that song came out!
In February 1968 my father addressed a commentary to the authors of an article about him (The Letters of J. R. R. Tolkien no. 294). In the course of this he recorded that 'one day' C. S. Lewis said to him that since 'there is too little of what we really like in stories' they would have to try to write some themselves. He went on: "We agreed that he should try 'space-travel', and I should try 'time-travel'. His result is well known. My effort, after a few promising chapters, ran dry: it was too long a way round to what I really wanted to make, a new version of the Atlantis legend. The final scene survives as The Downfall of Numenor."
J.R.R.T.'s unfinished work was titled "The Lost Road". Lewis' work, which he finished and which was published, was Out of the Silent Planet.
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