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Re-reading Modern History (Catholicism and why U.S. is different)
Catholic Exchange ^ | January 24, 2006 | George Weigerl

Posted on 01/24/2006 7:00:16 AM PST by NYer

In his Christmas address to the Roman Curia on true and false interpretations of Vatican II, Pope Benedict XVI asked why the Church had had such a difficult time opening a dialogue with “the modern age.” His answers are provocative — and turn some of the conventional accounts of modern history inside out.
A Bad Start

The pope suggested that “Catholicism-and-modernity” got off to a bad start when the Galileo trial opened a fissure between the Church and natural science. Immanuel Kant’s philosophical attempt to define “religion within pure reason” then seemed to eliminate any notion of a divine revelation to which the Church was accountable. The most dramatic breach came after 1789, when the French Revolution proposed — and bloodily enforced — an “image of the state and of man...intended to crowd out the Church and faith.”

A liberalism with no room for God was not a liberalism with which the Church could co-exist. And how could there be a dialogue with science when science “claimed to embrace, with its knowledge, the totality of reality to its outermost borders,” a claim that made the “hypothesis of God” unnecessary? European ideas and European politics thus led to a reaction under Pius IX: what Benedict called “a harsh and radical condemnation of this spirit of the modern age.” Yet Pius’s broadsides were no less “drastic” than the rejection of Christianity by those who most self-consciously embodied the spirit of the “modern age.”

America Was Different

There were other currents at work in modernity, however, and they eventually made their presence felt. Here, Benedict is worth a longish quote:

“It was becoming clear that the American Revolution had offered a model of the modern state that was different from that theorized by the radical tendencies that had emerged from the second phase of the French Revolution. Natural sciences began...to reflect (on) their own limits, imposed by their own method which, while achieving great things, was nevertheless not able to comprehend the totality of reality. Thus both sides began...to open up to each other. In the period between the two world wars and even more after the Second World War, Catholic statesmen had shown that a modern lay state which is not neutral with respect to values can exist (by) tapping into the great ethical fonts of Christianity. Catholic social doctrine...became an important model between radical liberalism and the Marxist theory of the state. Natural sciences...realized ever more clearly that (their scientific) method was not comprehensive of the totality of reality and thus opened again their doors to God, knowing that reality is greater than what a naturalistic (scientific) method can embrace.”

Ponder This on Left and Right
Several points are worth teasing out of this trenchant analysis.

(1) The harshness of the 19th-century confrontation between Catholicism and “modernity” was, so to speak, bilateral. Powerful forces in European culture and politics aimed at nothing less than the eradication of Christianity, or, at the very least, tethering the Church to an all-powerful state. As Benedict concedes, Pius IX’s language was the language of condemnation; but there was, in truth, a lot that needed condemning (as Anglican historian Owen Chadwick made clear in A History of the Popes 1830-1914, and as another British scholar, Michael Burleigh, will underscore in his forthcoming Earthly Powers: The Clash of Religion and Politics in Europe from the French Revolution to the Great War.)

(2) The American Revolution, which institutionally separated Church and state while affirming the transcendent origins of the “truths” on which democratic politics had to be based, was an entirely different matter than its French counterpart. Thus “1776” helped compel the development of doctrine that eventually led to Vatican II’s Declaration on Religious Freedom (a point that might be pondered, not only by Lefebvrists, but by Communio contributors convinced that America is, at bottom, an ill-founded republic).

(3) Catholicism and science can have a mutually beneficial dialogue when the Church remembers that it’s not in the geology business and science remembers that the scientific method can’t measure, much less account for, all-there-is — which is, I take it, the central point at issue in the current round of the Darwin wars.




TOPICS: Activism; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; History; Ministry/Outreach; Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: galileo; kant

1 posted on 01/24/2006 7:00:19 AM PST by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...


2 posted on 01/24/2006 7:00:42 AM PST by NYer (Discover the beauty of the Eastern Catholic Churches - freepmail me for more information.)
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To: NYer

Incredible man, this Pope!


3 posted on 01/24/2006 7:18:45 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: NYer
I had a biology professor last year who was telling the class that the Vatican had a secret prison underneath it, and that it was used during the Renaissance to punish scientists whose theories were against Church doctrine, such as with Galileo. Thank God there were a number of us in that class who put him in his place with that lie.

Professors in academia are always revising history, or only telling a part of it in order to advance their views. They make me so mad sometimes, that I don't know how I restrain myself from punching them out. Their hate for Christianity and conservatives is so profound, that they stuff it down our throats on a daily basis. I hope that Pope Benedict will bring the order that the Church needs, and bring us back to Orthodoxy.

I don't think that the perceived view of the Church condemning science will ever be able to be erased. Too bad.

4 posted on 01/24/2006 7:26:30 AM PST by Theoden (Fidei Defensor - Deus vult!)
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To: Theoden; Kolokotronis
Kolokotronis:Incredible man, this Pope!"

theoden:Professors in academia are always revising history, or only telling a part of it in order to advance their views. They make me so mad sometimes, that I don't know how I restrain myself from punching them out.

Slowly truth and knowledge is becoming more in focus. We may not see a more glorious world but I think our grand kids or great grand kids might. Spin and lies cannot stand. I am amazed to see a huge difference between the American and French revolution as spelled out by B16!

God bless anyone who holds the truth and prays for it to live again in public. Jesus and his Church will bring it on home. Vatican II will eventually unite our Church - as the Article points out with:

"The American Revolution, which institutionally separated Church and state while affirming the transcendent origins of the “truths” on which democratic politics had to be based, was an entirely different matter than its French counterpart. Thus “1776” helped compel the development of doctrine that eventually led to Vatican II’s Declaration on Religious Freedom (a point that might be pondered, not only by Lefebvrists, but by Communio contributors convinced that America is, at bottom, an ill-founded republic)."

The US and its affirming of religious belief is larger than we can imagine. It was an idea made real by the Fathers of the USA! And it will eventually make the difference as the world re-embraces Christ and the Church. Amazing point and reality. God bless B16 and the Fathers of Our Country!
5 posted on 01/24/2006 7:56:30 AM PST by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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To: NYer

Great article, NYer!


6 posted on 01/24/2006 8:03:49 AM PST by Rutles4Ever
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To: NYer

As I recall it, Joseph Ratzinger was a founder of, and frequent contributor to, Communio.

Mr. Weigel perhaps is thinking of his own critics here, as he has been described by Tracy Rowland, among others of the Communio group in this country (and elsewhere, Ms Rowland is in Australia), as a "Whig Thomist", a term applied to Weigel, Neuhaus and Novak.

One cannot suppress a grin upon recalling Dr. Johnson's aphorism that the Devil was the first Whig.


7 posted on 01/24/2006 8:09:07 AM PST by Theophane
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To: klossg; NYer; Kolokotronis
Dunno if any of you caught that PBS special on John Adams last night, but it got into the estragement between Adams and Jefferson--caused in no small measure because Jefferson was convinced that The French madness was fed by the same love of liberty as here in the States, whereas Adams deplored it as mob violence and was harshly critical against its excesses. I believe Adams even said that the American Revolution was precisely necessary to *preserve* order and natural law, not to overthrow it as the French tried. And then he correctly predicted that it would degenerate into supreme power under a single despot.

Later in his life, Jefferson admitted to Adams that he had been wrong.

8 posted on 01/24/2006 9:19:46 AM PST by Claud
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To: NYer
(2) The American Revolution, which institutionally separated Church and state while affirming the transcendent origins of the “truths” on which democratic politics had to be based, was an entirely different matter than its French counterpart. Thus “1776” helped compel the development of doctrine that eventually led to Vatican II’s Declaration on Religious Freedom (a point that might be pondered, not only by Lefebvrists, but by Communio contributors convinced that America is, at bottom, an ill-founded republic).

I feel so blessed to have been able to grow up here in America. And, to me, the Founding Fathers are a gift like no other.

9 posted on 01/24/2006 9:54:38 AM PST by AlbionGirl
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To: NYer
Natural sciences...realized ever more clearly that (their scientific) method was not comprehensive of the totality of reality and thus opened again their doors to God, knowing that reality is greater than what a naturalistic (scientific) method can embrace.

When did this happen?

10 posted on 01/24/2006 10:07:17 AM PST by Zionist Conspirator (Shallach 'et `ammi veya`avduni!)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

I was wondering the same thing.

One thing going for the US culture vis a vis science is that there is a stronger tradition to keep science a private affair. This being said, I do not see any particular humility in the way science preceives itself in the US.

If the pope speaks of condemnation of scientism coming from the worldwide Catholic Church, then he is of course correct, but I don't see any particular link to Catholicism in the US, which, if anything has a tradition of particularly appalling selectivity regarding the teaching of the Church.


11 posted on 01/24/2006 12:30:22 PM PST by annalex
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To: Theophane
As I recall it, Joseph Ratzinger was a founder of, and frequent contributor to, Communio.

What's even funnier, Pope Benedict only had one sentence referring to America in the Christmas address Weigel cites: "It was becoming clear that the American Revolution had offered a model of the modern state that was different from that theorized by the radical tendencies that had emerged from the second phase of the French Revolution."

That Weigel teases out a four-sentence interpretation just to bash the Communio school is lazy, and perhaps even a bit slimy.

12 posted on 01/24/2006 12:34:56 PM PST by Dumb_Ox (http://kevinjjones.blogspot.com)
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To: Theoden
the Vatican had a secret prison underneath it

If the professor knew about it, how 'secret' could it be? The Vatican is really lousy at keeping these 'secrets'. Every anti-Catholic seems to know all about them.

Such an assertion without any supporting evidence is useless. Glad to hear that you and your fellow students were able to publicly demonstrate that the professor was making an empty assertion without any reliable evidence.

13 posted on 01/24/2006 12:39:01 PM PST by siunevada (If we learn nothing from history, what's the point of having one? - Peggy Hill)
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To: siunevada

It was our pleasure =P


14 posted on 01/24/2006 4:12:39 PM PST by Theoden (Fidei Defensor - Deus vult!)
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To: NYer
The pope suggested that “Catholicism-and-modernity” got off to a bad start when the Galileo trial opened a fissure between the Church and natural science.

That's putting it very gently. There is need to recognize that, in the modern world at least, when science and religion have collided science has not come off the loser. The condemnation of Galileo was a tragedy for him, but only a slight check to science; it was Catholicism that suffered lasting harm.

Natural sciences began...to reflect (on) their own limits, imposed by their own method which, while achieving great things, was nevertheless not able to comprehend the totality of reality.

Galileo surely never doubted this.

It was becoming clear that the American Revolution had offered a model of the modern state that was different from that theorized by the radical tendencies that had emerged from the second phase of the French Revolution.

Not the least of the differences was that the American model worked.

15 posted on 01/25/2006 3:20:21 AM PST by Christopher Lincoln
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