DNA tests shake the Book of Mormon's foundations

LA Times ^ | March 2006 | Lobdell

[Pharmboy]

DNA never lies ping...

[martin_fierro]

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[Enterprise]

No headdress. They'll have to wear one of these.

[Enterprise]

This is hugh and series. If they descended from Asians, shouldn't the Government reclassify them as "Asian" instead of "Native American?"

[Cvengr]

Every Mormon I've ever worked with or known have been terrific people.

An apropo choice of words.

Main Entry: ter·rif·ic

Pronunciation: t&-'ri-fik

Function: adjective

Etymology: Latin terrificus, from terrEre to frighten

1 a : very bad : FRIGHTFUL b : exciting or fit to excite fear or awe

[PaxMacian]

I was not standing in judgement. I was merely pointing out that all or most of the evidence for Smith's claims may have been destroyed.

[colorcountry]

I've kind-of given up on arguing this point. Mormon theology is a moving target....you can't pin 'em down because they always receive new revelation.

I guess I'll just let them be. You know the old saying....they are such good, family oriented people. And, they are my neighbors, family and friends (can't live with em...can't live without em.)

[starfish923]

PaxMacian said: Nobody is taking into account that Washington and others committed multiple genocide in the north. Entire tribes were annihilated, men, women and children.
And of course the Indians never harmed a soul. Give me a freaking break. They joined forces with the French to attack English settlements and ended up getting their ass kicked. Sure there was tragedy on every side, but to claim the Indians as some innocent victim is just rubbish.
PacMacian answered: I was not standing in judgement. I was merely pointing out that all or most of the evidence for Smith's claims may have been destroyed.

You beat me to the punch, Mark.
American Indians massacred whole tribes, keeping a few women and children for slaves, sometimes.
The Iroquois were notorious for their cruelty to other tribes.

PaxMacian sounded VERY judgmental to me. I don't see any correlation to "Smith's claims" in his reply, just a diatribe (pun intended) against "Washington and others."

The American Indians MOSTLY got whupped by disease brought in from outside. And no, small pox is NOT a "white man's" disease; it's a disease from OUTSIDE the Americas. Imagine if the explorers had been Chinese or African. Small pox STILL would've annihilated the Indians...plus even more from those respective countries.

In any case, the American Indians were Stone Age and were conquered by the Iron Age invadess/explorers.
If the moccasin were on the other foot, the Indians would've done the same thing....only with scalping perhaps.

[starfish923]

Mormonism is SO off the wall. It reminds me of the nutty things in Hinduism.

HARD to believe that some very erudite people buy into Smith's "truth": According to the LDS, an angel named Moroni led Joseph Smith in 1827 to a divine set of golden plates buried in a hillside near his New York home. God provided the 22-year-old Smith with a pair of glasses and seer stones that allowed him to translate the "Reformed Egyptian" writings on the golden plates into the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ. Mormons believe these scriptures restored the church to God's original vision and left the rest of Christianity in a state of apostasy.
Wha-a-a-a-at-?
I had a aunt who was a Mormon. She told me that she had prayed me into Mormon heaven. She told my grandmother the same thing and my grandmother, bless her heart, told her daughter-in-law that she didn't want to go to Mormon heaven. Harhar. Cracked me up. I still miss her.

There's a sect of Christianity in India where Jesus DIDN'T die on the cross at Calvary but traveled to India, married, had children and taught His Messianic message there to the Indians.
My ex- is CONVINCED that somewhere in India there's a sect worshipping a '56 Chevy.

[Utah Girl]

Most of us who belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints didn't realize the foundations were challenged until we read this article in the Los Angeles Times last month, which was posted here at FR: Bedrock of a Faith Is Jolted. If you would like to read an article about DNA and the Book of Mormon, this is a good one to start with: DNA and the Book of Mormon. And here is another essay from Jeff Lindsay who links even more articles by authors who Does DNA evidence refute the Book of Mormon?". And from the official news site of the LDS church, DNA and the Book of Mormon. I know that Hugh Hewitt interviewed William Lobdell on his program (Lobdell was the author of the LA Times article.) And a week later, Hewitt did interview Dr Daniel Peterson from BYU and Dr John Butler who is a project leader at the Human Identity DNA Technologies Group, Biotechnology Division for the National Institute of Standards and Technology. The Other side of the Book of Mormon DNA debate.

[Enterprise]

What is your opinion though? Do you believe DNA legitimately challenges the foundations to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints?

[Utah Girl]

No, it doesn't. If the Book of Mormon claimed to be a scientific book, but it doesn't. In the end, it is accepted on faith. Just like the Bible. I have not placed my faith on DNA or archeological finds. There are a lot of interesting finds that have occurred in the last few years, but again, my testimony is not based on those things.

[JRochelle]

Don't you think that if Washington had destroyed all the jewish indians, that God would have revealed that to Joseph Smith?

Common sense is your friend.

[JRochelle]

ROFL!

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

bookmark for later.

[hlmencken3]

A certain kind of religious mind is completely undeterred by facts or common sense. DNA evidence won't be accepted by Mormon true believers any more than it will be accepted by our 'BritAm' FReepers.

[Alex Murphy]

Ping, after I go to the concession stand...

[Pharmboy]

Well, it may indeed have been the root of the word, but that's not the way I meant it. Thanks for the etymology lesson, BTW...

[caseinpoint]

So, if you can't prove scriptural claims by scientific evidence, that means that claim is false? Tread carefully, Bible believers, because scientific evidence is not especially kind to Biblical claims either. Or maybe you can point to hard scientific evidence of a worldwide flood. Have scientists found the Noah haplotype through which, according to the Bible, all modern people descend? If you believe claims that 30,000 year old DNA refutes the Book of Mormon, what does that do to the Adam claim? Since there's no scientific proof of the presence of Israelites in Egypt or of their migration across the Sinai, does that mean it didn't happen? Scientists also dispute any evidence of an extensive David/Solomon kingdom in the middle east--according to your standard, that means it didn't happen? Was Christ not resurrected because there is no objective scientific proof it happened?

Or do you think it is all right to use scientific evidence, especially negative (can't prove it) evidence to refute only those religious claims with which you don't believe? Be consistent. If Mormonism lives or dies according to current scientific evidence, then Christianity as a whole should do so also.

Faith means just that. It requires faith and that means science will never, in this mortal existence, prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that religion is true or false because then faith is not necessary.

[Cvengr]

"My ex- is CONVINCED that somewhere in India there's a sect worshipping a '56 Chevy."

Blasphamy! The '47 Chevy is much more righteous! /just kidding