Homosexuality Is Sin

FR | 5/4/06

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

First of all, when we look to Christian teaching on Homosexuality, we often start at the beginning in the Book of Genesis, whereby God created Adam and Eve, man and woman. When the Pharisees asked Christ whether or not it was lawful for a man to put away his wife, he answered them saying, “Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female” (see Genesis 1:27; Matthew 19:4-6) and Christ added, “What therefore God hath joined together, let no man put asunder.” Remember, Marriage isn’t simply a sexual arrangement, but homosexuality is the ultimate corruption and perversion of God’s union of man and woman.

In Chapter 19, we learn of the destruction of two cities, Sodom (the word sodomy was derived from Sodom and the homosexual proclivities of that city) & Gomorrah, which was destroyed by God for their wickedness...their sexual immorality. The apostle Peter explained, “And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an example unto those that after should live ungodly.” He added, “But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness...” (See II Peter 2:6;10) Jude too, explained, “Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, [homosexuality] are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Despite the Bible providing the absolute and clearest denunciation of homosexuality as a grave and horrible sin that led directly to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, by God himself, there are still some false Christians who deny the very example God gave and the very warnings of the apostles. As Jude pointed out, “...there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.” (See Jude 1:4) Witness people who, in the name of Christ no less, have the audacity, the arrogance, to brush it aside and indeed bastardize the faith claiming those that repent not, those that live day by day in sin, are without fault! In fact, as I’ll explain later, they curse those that speak the truth and deny Christ.

A further reading of Jude sheds even more light on the predicament. He says, “But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.” He continued, “Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever .... To execute judgement upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men’s persons in admiration because of advantage. .... How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. (See Jude, Chapter 1)

So faux Christians, often use the word love, and they use it most unlovingly to scold righteousness and truth. They use the word sparingly, in abstraction, without defining or explaining what love is for the only logical conclusion we can draw is that they use love as a shield to fend off those who would speak truthfully and confront sin, in this case homosexuality, as a transgression and an affront to God Almighty. John inform us of love: “By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.” In other words obedience is love. He goes on, “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.” (I John 5:2-3) Those who disobey God, those that are wicked like the men of Sodom, are in open rebellion against God and they defy his commandments oblivious to his examples. The apostle Peter tells us, “For so is the will of God, that with well-doing ye may put to silence ignorance of foolish men...” (See I Peter 2:15) In the words of the Apostle Paul, “Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. (II Timothy 2:15-16)

Those blasphemers, like high priced attorneys with silver tongues representing Satan, the “Father of lies,” display no self-control, they are conceited in their minds, and they turn away from Christianity. Paul foretold of them, “For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, high-minded, lovers of pleasures more than of God; .... For this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.” (See II Timothy 3:2-7) He added, “ But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.” (II Timothy 3:13).

Believe it or not, I’ve come across complainers and false accusers who take issue with my use of scripture. They seem confounded by the use of the inerrant, inspired word of God. They utter indignities and hiss like serpents preparing to strike and deliver a deadly blow of venom. Paul tells we should use to instruct righteousness and correct. “And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Jesus Christ. All scripture is given by the inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (II Timothy 15-17)

I apologize to those that forget that I make no claim to perfection, that even I err, for I’m prone to make mistakes. I seek not to pleasure, to harass, and delight in the downfall of others. On the other hand, there is no toleration for evil, while sin may be forgiven, it isn’t something that may be taken lightly. Have no illusions that by turning from God, you risk eternal damnation. Jesus Christ spoke repeatedly of the hell fire that awaits those who don’t depart from iniquity. John proclaimed, “Whosoever comitteth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.” (See I John 3:4-8) We are also instructed, “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not his doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that abideth him God speed is a partaker of his evil deeds.” (II John 1:9-11) “Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way, shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.” (James 5:20)

Back to the sin of homosexuality, in the Book of Leviticus, it is regarded as an abomination by God and the Law went as far as to make it a capital offense. “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.” (See Leviticus 18:22) In Verse 26, God says, Ye shall therefore keep my statues and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations; neither any of your nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you...” God couldn’t make it any clearer when he forbade homosexuality and roundly condemned it. We’re not instructed to be indifferent, or to turn a blind eye, and clearly this secular dogma about “inclusiveness” is anathema in obeying the Lord thy God!

I'll end in the New Testament, Paul , “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold truth in unrighteousness .... Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." (See Romans 1:18-32)

[little jeremiah]

I read up to about post 400. CCF never said Rudolph was a hero, you twisted what he said to make it sound as though he claimed he was.

He apparently advocates that homosexuality should be made a capital crime, as indeed it used to be in many states, and often in history.

I don't advocate it a capital crime, unless a homosexual uses an underage boy (or girl). All child molestation should warrant the death penalty.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Yeah, that one worked. Disturbing. Thanks for the link. I don't even know what to say. I hope I am taking it wrong. We (and they) have little hope when so many err with acceptance, indifference and/or excuses and then others err by wanting to stone them to death. Where oh where is the true Christian message? I think Alan Keyes articulates it pretty well, and you see what he gets for it. Values have turned upside-down, and we are one confused culture. Sad!

[tenn2005]

ALthough abortion "doctors" are themselves murderers, the justice they deserve will have to be arranged by a higher order.

You are absolutely correct. For what it is worth, I have a nephew who is a doctor and he tells me that less than 5% of the doctors in the U.S. will perform an abortion. Being a Christian he refuses to perform the proceedure even though he is well skilled to do so.

[Mr. Brightside]

Nobody has to twist Coulter Fans words to make him sound like a kook.

Coulter Fan on Eric Rudolph, who bombed abortion clinics and passersby at the Atlanta Olympics:

COLTER FAN: "you'll ask me if I think Rudoplh is a hero because he set off a bomb or two? If someone had assassinated Hitler early on, would you say that person is a criminal or a hero?"

When I asked him if he supported the violence of Eric Rudolph and James Kopp, Coulter Fan stated:

COULTER FAN: "extreme circumstances require extreme actions"

[dcnd9]

Your interpretation totally overanalyzed what was stated.

There are no "good" sinners or "bad" sinners.....sin is sin. We must humble ourselves as to not think we are any better than another because of "their" sin. The first shall be last and the last shall be first. Pride goeth before the fall.

[The Ghost of FReepers Past]

Implied in your statement, given the context, is that to be disgusted by homosexuality is somehow putting oneself up as a "good" sinner. In the context of the topic, the person who doesn't commit the sin is better than the person who does. To be repulsed by it is a proper response. One of the consequences of sinning in a particularly gross manner is that other people will be repulsed by it. So the statements about how badly homosexuals are treated rings hollow for me. No they should not suffer any violence. But words are not violence, and they must understand that if they make known their gross habits then the consequences will frequently be verbal disapproval. It's a consequence of the sin, and should actually be used as a help to make the sinner ashamed and hopefully repent.

The topic was homosexuality, so the sin of homosexuality is what applies. If you want to change the topic, then we can change who is guilty and who is innocent in that context. It serves no one to blur the lines on any given sin. Homosexuals are giulty of that sin in deed and in heart. They should pray that God search their hearts and clean their hearts of that sin as with other sins. When they emerge spouting out to the world how wronged they've been, forgive me if I don't believe they've really repented. Stop telling people who are innocent of homosexuality that they need to not be repulsed. It serves no one, not even the homosexual. They need to feel ashamed of that sin, and they need to see how it is particularly harmful to all of society. They should feel bad about their part in it and seek to support the idea that it is wrong, not tame it.

[dcnd9]

Peace to you.

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

Robinson has spoken many horrific blasphemies and if there were ever a heretic deserving to be burned alive at the stake – he’d be an excellent candidate. He’s a deviant, a wicked man, and a sodomite that abandoned his wife and children so that he could live with his male lover. He abides only in Satan.

"[T]hose shameful acts against nature, such as were committed in Sodom, ought everywhere and always to be detested and punished. If all nations were to do such things, they would be held guilty of the same crime by the law of God, which has not made men so that they should use one another in this way."(St. Augustine of Hippo, 'Confessions', Book III, Chapter 8, 15.)

"And sundry other books of the philosophers one may see full of this disease. But we do not therefore say that the thing was made lawful, but that they who received this law were pitiable, and objects for many tears. For these are treated in the same way as women that play the whore. Or rather their plight is more miserable. For in the case of the one the intercourse, even if lawless, is yet according to nature; but this is contrary both to law and nature. For even if there were no hell, and no punishment had been threatened, this would be worse than any punishment."(John Chrysostom, 'Homilies on Romans', Homily 4.)

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

The chief discussion of this passage [I Corinithians 6:9-1] concerns the terms "homosexual offenders." In the Greek it is one compound word, which never occurs in any writing before the Apostle Paul (he uses it once more in 1 Timothy 1:8-10). The term arsenokoitai literally means "male beds." Paul probably coins the word (as he coins others in his Epistles) and derives it from Leviticus 20:13 (similar to 18:22) where in the Greek text of the LXX the two terms arsenos and koitein are back-to-back in the sentence: "If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable" (literally, "If a man makes a bed with a man..."). By drawing on Leviticus Paul's meaning cannot be limited to male prostitutes, pederasts, perverts, etc., for he thinks more broadly with his biblical worldview. All homosexual behavior and orientation, written about hundreds of years before Paul, must be included. With the preceding word translated "male prostitutes," Paul gives us the passive and the active terms for same-sex behavior, following the pattern of the words of Leviticus 20:13, as even the rabbis and Philo interpreted the passage. Following the pattern of Leviticus 18 and 20, where incest is condemned before homosexuality, Paul's list here follows his condemnation of incest earlier in 1 Corinthians 5:1-13.

This text is important for several reasons. It affirms that homosexuals and other unrepentant sinners have no place in God's kingdom (which must include heaven in its meaning). Also, people who come to Christ are expected to change from their past evil behavior and identity by the power of Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Finally, the same term occurs in 1 Timothy 1:8-10 where Paul deals with what is unlawful, ungodly and unholy (using legal, religious and moral categories). This suggests that homosexual behavior is a proper object of restriction by the law, faith, and public morality. --Dr. James B. DeYoung, author of Homosexuality: Contemporary Claims Examined in Light of the Bible and Other Ancient Literature and Law

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

It is in Europe, and Canada, and of course many radical leftists in the United States are pushing for such measures, which are in place at universities and colleges all over the country through Speech Codes and enforced with Sensitivity Training that has in cases forced students to watch hardcore homosexual pornography, then taping them for any signs of being disgusted (turning their head, closing their eyes, or anything), and and using that to condemn them for their intolerance and so forth.

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

What you call "passion," the Bible calls lust, sin, and abomination. When you say you can't "criticize," the Bible says you should reproof, correction, and instruction of righteousness. As for those agendas that you see as being more dangerous, I'd be happy to debate just the opposite.

[shield]

That is horrible. If kids are going to go to universities then they should go to those where this is not happening. They may far and few between but they're out there. Even college on line...there's a few of those too.

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

No, there is a disagreement. As I've been forced to school you in the past, Early America following the Revolution had strict laws forbidding and punishing sodomy. Even Mr. Jefferson favored castration. Vermont made the Levitical guideline the law, South Carolina made sodomy a crime worthy of life in prison (and hard labor), and you claimed that there have been no such laws. I caught you in a lie, and I haven't forgotten that you claimed I was un-American until I routed you with factual evidence that laid waste to your vain boasting.

The only change, as far I can see, is the progressive movement that crept onto the scene around 1900...and achieved full power and authority under FDR...then we had the most destructive cultural calamity in our history, the Sixities Radicals, who have sacked our vital institutions including the church...and now we're on a race to the bottom. Your position on this issue can be likened more to the secular papacy, that of Justice Ginsburg, than that of the Apostle Paul or the great Lawgiver, Moses. I know what the Bible says, but I don't know what Mr. Phelps says and I really don't care.

As to your claim that I'm not conservative, as Mr. Bork pointed out about the 'Decline of Intellect', bold assertions don't count as reasoned, evidenced, or even sustained argument. It is irrationality, pure and simple. I am, however, more than happy to email Ann Coulter and ask her how she feels about this unknown entity, Mr. Brightside, speaking for her. I find this ironic, because you're attack on me seems to mirror the attacks Ms. Coulter received by the editor of the National Review who said she wasn't "conservative" and called her "mean-spirited." In reality, the only reason you claim that Ann Coulter would agree with you is because you are aware of her popularity among freepers and you in your lack of a cognitive process believe that you can appeal to that prejudice. Ha!

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

Mr. Brightside is a provocateur, and he’s a particular bothersome ankle biter. He rejects Moses, the Law, and ultimately God.

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

ZoeB is clearly versed in the arguments made by radical feminists by intellectual hoaxes such as "Women's Sudies."

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

I'll stand on my words:

I'm absolutely in favor of strengthening Judeo-Christian values, but I realize that in a toxic culture driven by hedonism that it may come as shock to people such as yourself. The Old Testament make up about three-quarters of the bible and Christ said he was here to fulfill that law. -Post 48 to Mr. Brightside

So killing homosexuals and kids who curse their parents would "strengthen Judeo-Christian values. --Mr. Brightside's reply

Can your BS... --DBeers response to Mr. Brightside

I suggest not feeding the trolls... --DBeers advice about Mr Brightside

Christ said, "...'many are called but few are chosen." The problem is that the world is full of sin and you have no understanding of the Law. It is therefore pointless for me to answer that question - perhaps you should try a reading of the Book of Revelation. --My reply to NJ_agent

To assume, in this context, that Jesus suddenly starts rejecting the moral regulations of torah is a little short of astonishing, especially in view of how the section begins ("Think not that I have come to abolish the law. . . . Whosoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments . . ."-vv. 17-18). --My reply to Northeastern_Realist

"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."(Book of Romans, Chapter 1, Verses 26-32.)

They are worthy of death, yes. --Post 110

If you don't need man-made laws to carry out your plan, what are you waiting for? Or have you started already? --Mr Brightside's reply to me

Are you saying God was "crazy," are you saying Christ was "crazy," or are you saying Moses was "crazy." I think profaning the Lord is "crazy." Are you going to report to the Romans?

Matthew 5:10-12 - Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you. --My Reply

I believe Ward Churchill and a great many college professors in America say things, which are far more of an outrage than what this man has said. --My reply to Awestruck

The only reason it is considered "lunacy," is because the marketing of evil and the selling of corruption has degenerated to such an all time low that homosexuals are being ordained by "christian churches," the homosexual bishop in New Jersey went as far as to suggest Christ was a sodomite, and there was a play in Boston depicting Christ as a queer. That's lunacy! --My reply to Unam Sanctam

You don't understand, because Moses, the gave us God's law and he require a penalty of death for sodomites and he said there blood was upon their head. --Post 151

The Bible command us repeatedly to judge righteously - not hypocritically. The "Judge not" is part of the false doctrine of apostate church's like Rick Warren's Saddleback church. --Search4Truth on Post 152

No one here wants to go out and kill homosexuals! You are taking Coulter Fan out of context. The discussion is... IS IT A CAPITAL OFFENSE TO GOD? And IF it is then God requires THE STATE to be the sword for God's judgment. --ALWAYSWELDING to Mr Brightside

Must I repeat that Moses, in the LAW, said they are to be put to death, must I point out there severity of the sin through the destruction of Sodom, and must I quote the Apostle Paul a third time about how such sinners are worthy of death? Would you then say that we must ban the Bible and Christianity? As for saying I should be reported, I cite Matthew 5:10-12, and I don't believe your serious at all about the faith. --My Post - 160

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

And, "Matthew 10:14-16 - If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves." --Post 165

[Conservative Coulter Fan]

Mr Brightside, like all slanderers, has a selective memory and they do a lot of "editing" like Michael Moore:

Frugal questions...you'll no more answer me about your toleration of mass murder (Abortion), but you'll ask me if I think Rudoplh is a hero because he set off a bomb or two? If someone had assassinated Hitler early on, would you say that person is a criminal or a hero? --

I read CCF's comment about Rudolph and I don't think he was calling him a hero. It's a pretty unclear post with some sarcasm, not clear to me anyway. --ALWAYSWELDING to Mr Brightside

This is where I must suffer you...you took my statement out of context - "...but you'll ask me if I think Rudoplh is a hero because he set off a bomb or two?" I didn't declare him a "hero." The point I was driving at was I don't regard him as a hero because he set off a bomb or two - only to wonder in the Mountains of my state, N.C. This is a creation owed entirely unto you...from the forked tongue you created this entire discussion of Rudolph...although you seem content with the mass murder when it is called abortion. --My Reply - Post 292

No, this false. I never said, "that Eric Rudolph is a hero, on par with someone who would have assasinated Hitler." I respond to this tangent with a question...that ended with me asking why he'd ask me if I thought Rudolph was a "hero" because he set off a bomb or two...clear sarcasm while he consistently refuses to deal with the abortion holocaust...although he writes letters to the death camps. --Post 302

This was my reply to the dim bulb - "Frugal questions...you'll no more answer me about your toleration of mass murder (Abortion), but you'll ask me if I think Rudoplh is a hero because he set off a bomb or two? If someone had assassinated Hitler early on, would you say that person is a criminal or a hero?" Of course...he took it out of context, and did a Michael Moore, chopped of the question mark, and started at "I think" as falsely claim that I was calling Rudolph a "hero." What about - "Thou shalt not lie?" --Post 305

No, he asked me if I thought Eric Rudolph as a hero and I responded sarcastically asking him why he'd ask me if I thought he's a hero because he set off a bomb or two...as for Hitler...I keep drawing parallels between abortion and the holocaust...because I view both as mass murder.

As to this, "sound like the Muslim world defending terrorists, in that you fail to condemn the people who preach hate and violence." This is a false analogy...Mr. Brightside, in this instance, sounds more like a liberal decrying Ann Coulter...saying she said we should bomb their countries, kill their leaders, and convert them to Christianity. Islam is a violent, satanic religion and Muslims won't condemn what they believe in..

I'm just waiting for someone to call me intolerant, LOLOL! --Post 327

[little jeremiah]

Thanks for the ping. It's clear who said what. I wonder if Mr. Brightside is one of the "Brights" - the organization of atheists? Are you, Mr. B?

CCF may be strong medicine, but I can't really disagree with anything he said. The delivery isn't on a silver salver with a lace doily, but that's okay, I don't use them either.

He never advocating killing homosexuals, nor did he call Rudolph a hero.