Posted on 06/25/2006 5:48:00 AM PDT by NYer
The Rev. Yves le Roux, rector of St. Thomas Aquinas Seminary in Winona, is clear about the role of the Society of St. Pius X, of which he is a member.
“We are Roman Catholic,” he said. “We are recognized by Pope Benedict XVI. He is our father, but we are obliged to tell you we do not accept the teachings of Vatican II because it’s not an echo of the traditional church. The Church does not have the ability to teach something new.”
St. Thomas Aquinas is one of six seminaries around the world run by the Society of St. Pius X, a fraternity of priests in disagreement with the Vatican.
On Friday, four of its seminarians were ordained as priests and another made a deacon at an outdoor ceremony on the seminary grounds. About 2,000 people from across the country attended the Mass, celebrated by Bishop Bernard Fellay. Fellay, who lives in Switzerland and is one of the society’s four bishops, was ex-communicated by the Roman Catholic Church in 1988.
Founded in 1969 by the late French Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, the society grew out of his disapproval of the Second Vatican Council, the church’s 1962 modernization of its rituals. Their relationship with the Vatican has been marked by disagreement.
When Lefebvre made Fellay and three others bishops without Vatican approval, Pope John Paul II ex-communicated Lefebvre and all the bishops. The same year, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger — now Pope Benedict XVI — said the society had closed itself off in a “fanaticism of the elect,” as reported by Catholic New Service.
There have been attempts at reconciliation between the two sides as late as this year.
As le Roux and the Rev. Joseph Dreher, 41, vice rector at the seminary, explained, much of the disagreement stems from the liturgy. The society uses the pre-Vatican II Mass, celebrated in Latin.
“The liturgy is an expression of our faith,” Dreher said. “By restoring the old Mass, the true Mass, the Tridentine Mass, it expresses the teachings of the Catholic Church. By restoring that we want to restore the beliefs, which over time, with Vatican II especially, they’ve been put out, watered down, taken out of people’s minds.”
Le Roux, 41, from France, said people believe as they pray. The new Mass, he said, puts man before God, while the Latin Mass gives honor to God.
He also disagrees with Vatican II’s teachings on religious liberty and understanding of non-Catholic religions.
“It’s very surprising for us to hear that other religions can have some truth,” le Roux said.
The two listed repercussions of what they see as a drifting Church: Catholics talk less about hell and sin; it’s difficult to find priests to say penance; and priests marry couples who are living together.
“In the modern Church, the priest is just the president of the assembly,” Dreher said.
Paul Robinson, 30, is one of the priests ordained Friday. Like Dreher, he grew up with the Latin Mass. He said if you grow up in that culture, the society is the “biggest thing going.”
“There would be no reason for me to be a priest if I didn’t believe there was right and wrong,” he said. “We’re always looked at as the mean guys because we believe in things.”
As of 2005, the society had 470 priests serving in 60 nations. St. Thomas Aquinas, on Stockton hill just outside Winona, is its only U.S. seminary.
Wearing a black cassock, le Roux joked about being a dinosaur. He said religion is not just about being nice, it’s also about being holy.
“We are not here to save the Church because the Church is divine and does not need to be saved,” he said. “We are sure, one day or another, the Church will come back.”
Man, them excomunicated priests sure can preach
Photos of priests automatically suspended a divinis are really nothing to celebrate or promote.
"Photos of priests automatically suspended a divinis are really nothing to celebrate or promote."
But it sure beats photos of a "clown Mass" or a "mass" with dancing girls, even if a cardinal in "good standing" is presiding.
beautiful pics Pyro. we had a very similar procession with the Kof C too at my novus ordo church
If HH lifts the decrees of excommunication, as is rumored, then what?
If HH lifts the decrees of excommunication, as is rumored, then what?
If HH lifts the decrees of excommunication, as is rumored, then what?
Not sure why you're asking me, but that won't stop me from having an opinion. If the Holy Father, lifts the decree of excom which the SSPX says doesn't exist, they can join in doing the good works of FSSP. Of course, the chances of this happening would be much greater if they didn't call His Holiness a heretic everytime they were in earshot of a reporter.
you wrote: "Pope Benedict does not approve of this schismatic group. He recognizes it for what it is: schismatist priests and excommunicated bishops"
you did not finish reading the Pope's mind, so let me tell you the rest of his thoughts
"....who are more Catholic than 80% of the Western clergy and that is why I am so desirous of reaching an agreement with them and that whatever their problems, they at least aren't perverts, pro-aborts, and frank heretics who pay disingenuous lip service to me as molest and violate their parishes."
I do not read anyone's mind.
I know only that the pope has not recognized SSPX as anything but a schismatic group. He has admonished Catholics not to support it financially, to attend its services, or to lend it public support.
Now, if one believes one's teaching authority is superior to the pope's, then you can contradict the pope. But that means you are not Catholic, since Catholics must obey canon law and the pope, right? But the pope could be wrong on these matters of faith and morals, right? But wouldn't that mean that the Catholic teaching about papal infallibility is erroneous, right?
No thank you, I will stick with papal teaching authority unencumbered by personal prejudices. Until the excommincant bishops and illicit priests return to communion with the pope, they do not deserve serious consideration.
you wrote: I know only that the pope has not recognized SSPX as anything but a schismatic group. He has admonished Catholics not to support it financially, to attend its services, or to lend it public support.
actually there has been posted numerous times on FR letters from various priests/Roman authorities that concede one can attend SSPX service provided schism is not intended on the part of the person and that one can even make a contribution to support them (Probably not real large though :))
Undoubtedly the Pope does not secretly agree 100% with SSPX. But the reality is the Pope has far worse problem: it's called the Western church which is has far too many frank heretics and perverts. JP II said Europe was undergoing apostasy (and that huge problem dwarfs the SSPX and occurred in the last 40 years of our New Pentecost-and I think we can agree it wasnt the SSPX's fault).
In your dreams.
WRONG. The Tridentine mass was the missal used in Rome, simpily made standard for most of the church, except for liturgies over 200 years old such as the Mozambaric, Gallacian and Dominican rites. Even the different rites in the West were more similar to each other then the Novus Ordo compared to the TLM. All the rites of the West(except one that used Slavonic) used Latin as its liturgical language, they all had similar rubrics such asd the priest facing the altar, they all had communion with one species, they all used the altar rails for communion, lay involvment in the sanctuary was not only unheard of, but it wasnt even contemplated.
As for the basis for the rite in the West, it goes back to the very eraly church, and codified by People Gregory the Great in the 500s. So it is as old as the Devine Liturgy.
Its a complex situation, and not even all the parishoners who attend SSPX chapels(and except for a handful of 3rd order SSPX members, the laity are not members of the SSPX, but simpily Catholics) or even clergy are on the same page.
My take is if a indult is avilable in a convinent time and place, one has to attend there, if its the situation that one sees in the LA archdiocese, then attendence to a SSPX chapel can be justified as long as one does not get a schismatic mindset. Sadly Bp. Williamson and his ilk has severely poisoned the well.
it is complex situation and sadly some of the polemics from the SSPX are not helpful and can fuel a schismatic attitude, no doubt. But, I would say it is generally licit to attend (does not canon law allow us to go to Orthodox church?) unless the motivation is clearly schismatic.
I have a suspicion that if more orthodox Catholics would support the SSPX in some way at least and not support their heretical ordinary or priest, then that would help ease out many of the heretics and give Rome good reason to move these guys out quicker.
Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger on the So-called SSPX "Hawaii Five"
His Excellency, the Most Reverend Joseph Anthony Ferrario, with aforesaid Decree, declared Mrs. Morley excommunicated on the grounds that she had committed the crime of schism and thus had incurred the "latae sententiae" penalty as provided for in Canon 1364 §1 of the Code of Canon Law.
This Congregation has examined carefully all the available documentation and has ascertained that the activities engaged in by the Petitioner, though blameworthy on various accounts, are not sufficient to constitute the crime of schism.
Since Mrs. Morley did not, in fact, commit the crime of schism and thus did not incur the "latae sententiae" penalty, it is clear that the Decree of the Bishop lacks the precondition on which is founded.
This Congregation, noting all of the above, is obliged to declare null and void the aforesaid Decree of the Ordinary of Honolulu.
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