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To: Conservative til I die
I hate to pop your bubble, buddy, but first, Freemasonry is not, repeat, not a religion. Second, Freemasonry expects each member to be active in his own church.

The Roman Catholic Church doesn't like the fact that Freemasonry doesn't insist on each member being active in the Roman Catholic Church.

65 posted on 09/11/2006 8:33:44 AM PDT by Redleg Duke (¡Salga de los Estados Unidos de América, invasor!)
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To: Redleg Duke
I hate to pop your bubble, buddy, but first, Freemasonry is not, repeat, not a religion. Second, Freemasonry expects each member to be active in his own church.

I didn't say it was a religion. But you said it encourages belief in God. So there is a religious component.

The Roman Catholic Church doesn't like the fact that Freemasonry doesn't insist on each member being active in the Roman Catholic Church.

It's the old Catholo-fascist canard, right? The fascisct Pope doesn't like the Masons becuase they threaten his goals of world domination by not demaning all members be Catholics too. Right. It's because Masonic teachings about God don't jibe with our own. Period.

Did you know you also can't be a Catholic and a Hindu at the same time? Or a Muslim, Jew, Sikh, or Wiccan?
67 posted on 09/11/2006 8:41:23 AM PDT by Conservative til I die
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To: Redleg Duke; Gerard.P; murphE
The Roman Catholic Church doesn't like the fact that Freemasonry doesn't insist on each member being active in the Roman Catholic Church.

Huh?
It would be helpful to see anything connecting this assertion with fact. No Catholic is allowed to be a Freemason, under direct threat of excommunication. Period. There are reasons for this including Masonic secret oaths and various beliefs that put the organization at odds with the Catholic religion and teachings.
That is fact, not some paronoia about "all Freemasons must be Catholic."
Oh, and the Catholic faith doesn't require Rotarians to be Roman Catholic either, or Chamber of Commerce members or Garden Club participants, or Kiwanians, etc., etc. yet none of those groups are forbidden.

101 posted on 09/11/2006 9:17:31 AM PDT by vox_freedom (Matthew 5:37 But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no)
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To: Redleg Duke
1. Masons aren't bad guys.

2. Masons fudge things by encouraging regard for the "Grand Architect of the Universe" however that term may be defined by the individual member. Is it not true that the Masonic Order enrolls Christians, Jews, Hindus, Moslems, etc.???? Not a criticism because there is certainly room for organizations that encourage fraternal brotherhood across denominational lines. Nonetheless, the GAOTU of a Hindu is different from that of a Methodist is different from that of a Moslem is different from that of a Jewish man.

3. Catholics regard that GAOTU business as "religious indifferentism (not of individual Masons but of the Order itself) and essentially the identification of a God so devoid of specific definition as to be a false god (of a different sort than Vishnu or Kaali but false nonetheless).

4. It is one thing to include in the local Lions Club fraternally minded members of any and all or no religious persuasion and another to make what amounts to a collective religious reference to the GAOTU.

5. IIRC, if we Catholics were to be going around drafting anyone from outside, Redleg Duke, a principled and textured fellow who fights for that which he believes, would be high on the list. However, whatever may have happened in earlier times, it is hard to separate Catholicism from a militant belief in free will as a God-given gift. That being the case, we cannot very well draft you, although you are certainly encouraged to volunteer and we would be awash in joy if, having voluntarily considered Catholicism, you would become Catholic. If not, I reserve the right to respect you and your principled track record anyways.

6. As Masonry exists today, the Catholic Church not only does not wish Masonry to require Catholicism of each Mason. In fact, the Catholic Church requires ITS members NOT to be Masons.

7. None of this is meant to disparage individual Masons or even the Order itself as a general proposition. Most Catholics and most Knights of Columbus have been acquainted with or fast friends with many good and decent and admirable men who belong to the Masonic Order. We Catholics reasonably obey our Church in resisting the overly ecumenical notion of the GAOTU and some of the Masonic oaths which range from silly to blood-curdling and are quite often in their substance not fit oaths for Christians to take even in the hail fellow, well-met spirit of fraternalism. There is, nonetheless, much to admire in the membership and programs of the Masonic Order.

243 posted on 09/12/2006 10:31:23 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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