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Rosh Hashanah and the Second Coming
The B'rit Chadasha Pages | 9/20/06 | Michael D. Bugg

Posted on 09/20/2006 10:14:32 AM PDT by Buggman

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To: 1000 silverlings

So, your awareness is from your related secret work or conjecture or someone you know, or what?


101 posted on 09/21/2006 1:42:13 AM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: Quix

(((Quix)))


102 posted on 09/21/2006 1:50:43 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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To: 1000 silverlings
September 23 is my birthday

I'm baking the cake as we speak.


103 posted on 09/21/2006 9:05:58 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Talking_Mouse

I meant to say His birthday will be on that date, and I think you know that is what I meant. So I am going to start monitoring your threads and bring up every such faux pas that I find.


104 posted on 09/21/2006 9:43:13 AM PDT by attiladhun2 (Islam is a despotism so vile that it would warm the heart of Orwell's Big Brother)
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To: Quix; 1000 silverlings
I don't think the GPS has anything to do with AUTHENTIC crop circles.

What's an "authentic" crop circle?

105 posted on 09/21/2006 10:36:00 AM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: attiladhun2
You will find many faux pas to call me on.
106 posted on 09/21/2006 10:53:36 AM PDT by Talking_Mouse (wahhabi delenda est)
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To: jude24
My concern is, however, that reactionary Judaism has little to teach us of any exegetical value.

And I fully understand that concern. The rabbis are a pretty smart bunch, but they of course have an enormous blind spot when it comes to the Messiah.

On the other hand, I could also question the exegetical value of much of Christian tradition for similar reasons.

I will stipulate it may have some valuable insights into First Century Judaism, however. To use those insights to exegete the Old Testament, however, is fallacious.

Actually, done carefully, it's not. You are familiar, of course, with the concept of a hostile witness. When a person admits something that is not to their advantage, that's often the strongest sort of testimony. For most of our history, the Christians and the Jews have worked hard at definining themselves to be as separate as possible. Therefore, when one finds a Jewish tradition that is in complete agreement with the NT, one has to take special note.

Therefore, when I see a (as far as I've been able to determine) universally-accepted tradition that the Resurrection of the dead will occur on the Feast of Trumpets, using very similar terminology to that of Yeshua and Sha'ul, I consider that an important piece of testimony from a hostile source.

The other thing we have to remember is that the Scriptures are all high-context documents: They assume that the readers share a core of culture, language, idiom, and foundational teaching, that they all already have the context necessary to understand the author. The more we learn about the culture and idioms of those to whom the Scriptures were written, the better we understand the Scriptures.

There are passages in Sha'ul's epistles which make use of Greek references: For example, his teaching of grace was built on the then well-known patron-client relationship.

Likewise Yochanan's (John's) opening chapter, in which he titles Yeshua the Word of God, was apparently not based primarily on subtleties of the word logos, but on the Aramaic Targums' use of the term Memre Dei, "the Word of God," to describe the "part" of God who met with His people (see Lightfoot's Talmudic Commentary on the New Testament, Vol. 3, pardon the lack of a page number). God's Word (Heb. D'var) is not simply His logic, but that by which He takes action (cf. Isa. 55:11). Likewise, Yochanan's assertion that by the Word everything was made that has existance has parallels in the rabbinic literature, where God creates the world by means of an eternally-existant Torah.

I don't think we realize how much of the NT has its origination in first-century Jewish rabbinical thought. That's hardly surprising, since Yeshua Himself was regarded as a rabbi (despite a lack of formal training and ordination) and taught like one, even engaging the Pharisees in rabbinical debate over halakha (applying the Torah; tradition).

Trust me, I don't just take anything the rabbis wrote as gospel--any more than I do the ECF or Calvin--and I've found both sides to be equally guilty of creative exegesis under the influence of the sacrimental wine, so to speak. I regard them all as useful sources for historical background, linguistic study, and ideas, but it is ultimately the Bible to which we always return as our final authority.

And I think we're both agreed on that.

I appreciate, as always, your ability to voice a concern or objection without being contentious. God bless, and L'shana tova u-metukah.

107 posted on 09/21/2006 11:18:43 AM PDT by Buggman (http://brit-chadasha.blogspot.com)
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To: Buggman
I asked you why you used "Yeshua" instead of Jesus, when you use the language in which "Jesus" is the word for the Messiah.

108 posted on 09/21/2006 12:59:37 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

From post #97:

One in which the nodes of the plants have been heated and often somewhat exploded by extremely brief microwaves; wherein within the circles there is a microdusting of extremely fine iron particles; and within the circles there's a significant difference in the magnatism of the soil vs outside the circle.

I think there are some other scientifically verified differences but those are the basic ones off the top of my head. This has been published in peer reviewed scientific journals, BTW.

The hoaxer's circles have none of the above.


109 posted on 09/21/2006 1:07:09 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOUUUUUU!

My next one is 60. Still hard to believe.


110 posted on 09/21/2006 1:08:38 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: William Terrell

And you received your answer. Moving on . . .


111 posted on 09/21/2006 1:37:36 PM PDT by Buggman (http://brit-chadasha.blogspot.com)
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To: Quix; 1000 silverlings

No, Saturday is the birtday of our friend, 1000silverlings.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO HIMMMMMMMMMM!

8~)


112 posted on 09/21/2006 1:46:16 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Quix
My next one is 60. Still hard to believe.

You don't post like a day over 29. 8~)

113 posted on 09/21/2006 2:57:48 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Buggman
And you received your answer. Moving on . . .

No I received no answer. Respect for the name doesn't cut it. You're trying to communicate to people who know the Messiah as Jesus. Why not call Him Jesus? Both name refer equally to the same presence.

I'll tell what I suspect; I've seen similar tactics before. I've used them.

The obscure reference sets you apart as a closer and more knowledgeable authority. A similar technique has been used by actors in pronouncing historical names, like pronouncing the Egyptian queen's name NeferTERI instead of NeferTITI. The technique seeks to imply a greater authority to the speaker than would be ordinarily gained from standard reference.

Phrases in Latin and other foreign languages impart the same thing. I use those myself for the same reason.

The problem with this reference is that it is an attempt to gain yourself from readers, not more authority of man's knowledge, but more authority of the knowledge of God. I run into to this all the time, especially from Jews who have come to the knowledge that Jesus was the Messiah.

I don't buy it, so I call you on it. You obfuscate instead of owning up to it after have been given several chances.

I believe that God blesses humility and condemns arrogance. The scriptures bear me out. But that's your problem; I just point it out.

114 posted on 09/21/2006 3:43:57 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell
Point the first: You seem to be under the impression that I owe you an explanation. I do not. I have explained the "whys" of my particular custom to you as a courtesy, not because you are my judge whom I must appease.

Point the second: Nobody else seems to be confused by my use of Yeshua instead of Jesus. Therefore, your protest that someone might misunderstand me rings a little hollow.

Point the third: Having received my explanation for my custom multiple times on this thread and others, you call me a liar. Using the Lord and His Apostles' Hebrew names is not a matter of self-elevation. Perhaps you should stop claiming to see into the hearts of those you know only through their words on a computer screen, and accept their explanations at face value.

If we're going to play this game, let's put the shoe on the other foot: I've seen tactics similar to yours before. You dislike the content of the article, but having no reply to any of the substance of the arguments contained within, you have decided to find some nit to pick about the author--in this case, myself. It's called an ad hominem ("against the man").

You have received my explanation. You understand my explanation perfectly well. You just don't like it. Sorry, but I'm not changing: Our Lord was born under the name Yeshua, a Second Temple period variant of Y'hoshua, a name which was prophesied to Him four centuries before (Zec. 6:11-13). There is nothing wrong with with transliterating His Name, as the Apostles themselves did--but neither is there anything wrong with using the Name by which He was called for the 33 years that He walked this earth in such a fashion that people know what it is.

God knows the heart. He knows the heart of a person who receives salvation in the name of Jesus, and of those like myself who are called to emphasize the Jewish roots of the faith.

115 posted on 09/21/2006 4:13:50 PM PDT by Buggman (http://brit-chadasha.blogspot.com)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; 1000 silverlings

Wellllllllll, SILVERLINGS,

Congrats to youuuuuuuuuuuuuu, then!


116 posted on 09/21/2006 4:26:23 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

Hmmmmm. Welllll in my menality region . . . I still FEEL like I'm in undergrad school.

A lot of the rest of me is fairly battle worn in a list of ways, though! LOL.

Glucosamine etc. helps!


117 posted on 09/21/2006 4:27:22 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

yippee, cake!


118 posted on 09/21/2006 6:37:48 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (why is it so difficult to understand?)
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To: Quix; Dr. Eckleburg

Thank you Quix, you can have some cake and eat it too, lol.


119 posted on 09/21/2006 6:41:28 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (why is it so difficult to understand?)
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To: Buggman
Trust me, I don't just take anything the rabbis wrote as gospel--any more than I do the ECF or Calvin--and I've found both sides to be equally guilty of creative exegesis under the influence of the sacrimental wine, so to speak. I regard them all as useful sources for historical background, linguistic study, and ideas, but it is ultimately the Bible to which we always return as our final authority.

I suppose it's not much different than using Aristotle or Plato - selectively - to support Christianity. The Early Church Fathers made extensive use of those philosophers.

I appreciate, as always, your ability to voice a concern or objection without being contentious.

I appreciate that. Simple fact of the matter is that you've always been good to correspond with, and while I disagree with you, its based on ideas, not personality. Your insights have always been interesting, even if from different assumptions than mine.

120 posted on 09/21/2006 6:45:09 PM PDT by jude24 ("I will oppose the sword if it's not wielded well, because my enemies are men like me.")
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To: Buggman; William Terrell; topcat54
Using the Lord and His Apostles' Hebrew names is not a matter of self-elevation.

No, not at all. At worst, it could be pretentious, although I would not attribute that to you. Instead, it is due to your affinity for the Hebrew background of the New Testament. Now, personally, I believe your extent of affinity is a little extreme, but Mr. Terrell has completely missed the mark in attributing the motivation of self-elevation.

neither is there anything wrong with using the Name by which He was called for the 33 years that He walked this earth in such a fashion that people know what it is.

And yet, the New Testament saw fit to Hellenize the name....? Perhaps the Anglicization is not such a bad thing?

My friend, I honestly believe your writings are detracted by needless Hebraisms. Now, I would say the same thing if it were Grecisms - I am bothered by those who unnecessarily use Greek words if they add little to the conversation. Or by those who unnecessarily use legalese when it is not needed. Of course, terms of art or key words that need to be translated to amplify a particular point should always be fair game. But I would challenge yout consider trying a few of your essays without the Hebraisms. I bet you will see see it makes them less distracting.

121 posted on 09/21/2006 6:55:00 PM PDT by jude24 ("I will oppose the sword if it's not wielded well, because my enemies are men like me.")
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To: Buggman
My observation wasn't based on whether anyone may or may not understand you.

Whether you are a liar is not for me to answer. A person need not be aware of the foundation beneath his actions. Sometimes it's deeply ingrained by traumatic events or rearing. That's my opinion. That opinion comes from one who is tempted that way much and has given in more than once, so it irritates me when I see it.

My main twitch, though, is using methods to gain deeper color of authority on spiritual matters. I know some Protestant ministers who tend to use a similar oar. Not to speak of televangelists. I'm an equal opportunity judger.

I can say my first question was just from seeing people write using Yeshua and wondering, why just not use Jesus, by which name He's well known to the world?, then moving on to something else. First chance I've had to ask.

The rest came out of the conversation and other posts.

If you feel you'll be judged or though less of by God for your lack of respect to Christ by calling Him Jesus instead Yeshua, I don't have or ever have had that belief. Maybe that's why I see the other side.

Being what I think about the usage is correct, I don't think it's good.

122 posted on 09/21/2006 7:06:43 PM PDT by William Terrell (Individuals can exist without government but government can't exist without individuals.)
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To: William Terrell
The English word is "Jesus".

Your name in Spanish is Guillermo. But, if you were good friends with a Spaniard, he would probably call you William.

123 posted on 09/21/2006 7:31:16 PM PDT by AnnaZ (I think so, Brain, but if we give peas a chance, won't the lima beans feel left out?)
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To: 1000 silverlings

If it's not fruit cake . . . you can have it all. LOL.

Now who will be the first one to say

"That figures!" LOL.

May your intimacy this coming year with your loved ones be double your wildest dreams and hopes.

And with God, quadruple.

LUB,


124 posted on 09/21/2006 7:37:58 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: Buggman; All
Yom Teruah is a day which ultimately calls all of God’s people together in repentance in anticipation of the glorious Second Coming, in which He will once again visit His people in the Person of the Messiah Yeshua to Resurrect the dead, awaken the living, and judge all mankind together.

Thanks for the excellent article. Trumpets is indeed a glorious, holy day full of meaning. When Christ returns, at the last trumpet, we will indeed be resurrected to glory.

Looking forward to future Atonement and Tabernacles installments.

125 posted on 09/21/2006 8:12:13 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: jude24; William Terrell; topcat54
And yet, the New Testament saw fit to Hellenize the name....? Perhaps the Anglicization is not such a bad thing?

And have I ever said it was? :^)

But I would challenge yout consider trying a few of your essays without the Hebraisms. I bet you will see see it makes them less distracting.

Again, I'm not seeing all that many people who find them distracting and bothersome. In fact, quite a few seem to like it. Those that object are pretty much confined to one small circle who have already decided in their minds that I'm a heretic and are just looking for nits to pick.

Because you've asked in love and lateral respect, I'll definitely consider your request in prayer--though I'll say that it was prayerful consideration that led me to start up the Hebraisms in the first place. But until and unless the Spirit leads me to change my practice, I'd greatly appreciate it if everyone would just accept it as one of my little quirks and actually comment on the substance of my arguments.

I don't think that's unreasonable.

Post #120: Simple fact of the matter is that you've always been good to correspond with, and while I disagree with you, its based on ideas, not personality. Your insights have always been interesting, even if from different assumptions than mine.

Ditto, my friend.

126 posted on 09/21/2006 8:12:29 PM PDT by Buggman (http://brit-chadasha.blogspot.com)
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To: Quix

There is obviously a difference in the way the parties are approached by the media - but I'm not sure whether the reason is physical or spiritual. Thanks for the ping!


127 posted on 09/21/2006 9:46:29 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

There is obviously a difference in the way the parties are approached by the media - but I'm not sure whether the reason is physical or spiritual.
= = = =

Not sure what you mean physical . . . do you mean in the natural realm vs the spiritual?

Certainly it's spiritual--at least. I don't think any major thing on this planet currently is devoid of a significant spiritual component--if such was ever the case.

If you mean in the natural . . . evil men driven by demonic forces are wholesale trying to rush the planet into the global government. This is no longer a question. There's no longer any doubt for folks who are well informed, paying attention or even "just" praying earnestly and listening to Holy Spirit.

So, at some level satan's stool pigeons do effect many things in the natural in natural ways. But, I don't think--it's ever without spiritual forces tagging along and for more than just window dressing or neutral effect.


128 posted on 09/21/2006 9:58:43 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: Quix
Yes, when I said "physical" I meant "natural."

It was sloppy, but the point is simply this: the media's behavior may be their behaving like the liberals they are --- or, it could be just one of many parts in an end time scenario playing out in front of us. If so, then Praise God! Maranatha, Jesus!

129 posted on 09/21/2006 10:06:23 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

True. true.

Though given all the givens . . . I think it's more than the media just being liberals. And, I think if you prayerfully ponder it, you'll feel the same way.

For example, why virtually no mention of the scarier aspects of Iranian nut job and Chavez nut job's speech content in the MSM? Who gave that order? Why?


130 posted on 09/21/2006 11:04:20 PM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: Quix

I am in great need of much more sweetness and much more wisdom, dear Quix!


131 posted on 09/22/2006 2:20:55 AM PDT by .30Carbine
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To: .30Carbine

I am in great need of much more sweetness and much more wisdom, dear Quix!
= = =

Obviously . . . join the club! LOL.

Thx.


132 posted on 09/22/2006 4:16:39 AM PDT by Quix (LET GOD ARISE AND HIS ENEMIES BE SCATTERED. LET ISRAEL CALL ON GOD AS THEIRS! & ISLAM FLUSH ITSELF)
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To: Buggman

I didn't read your whole post, but just skimmed over it...it looks like a great read! I did go to your church web site, and all I can say is WOW! It is such a rush to my soul every time I come across Messianic Jews! We had a Lady come to our church and explain the symbolism of the Sedar meal....It leaves you breathless to see the amazingness of God.

Keep up the good work!

Brother in Christ.


133 posted on 09/22/2006 5:25:36 AM PDT by ScubieNuc
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To: Quix

Why thank you Quix, that's very kind of you.


134 posted on 09/22/2006 12:07:31 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (why is it so difficult to understand?)
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To: Buggman
I'd greatly appreciate it if everyone would just accept it as one of my little quirks and actually comment on the substance of my arguments.

Well, when you put it that way, I'd have to say "okay". Nothing wrong with quirky, I like quirky. Thanks for pinging me by the way.

135 posted on 09/22/2006 12:10:50 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (why is it so difficult to understand?)
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To: fso301

I had a post from way back when. You might take a look at it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a39e032ca390d.htm

Regards,
Star Traveler


136 posted on 09/23/2006 9:27:54 AM PDT by Star Traveler
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To: Quix

Indeed, I think they are driven. Thank you for your reply!


137 posted on 09/23/2006 12:15:29 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Buggman
There's nothing wrong with using the English mispronounciation of a Latin transliteration of a Greek transliteration of a Hebrew name, mind--I'm not into the Sacred Name nonsense ("If you don't pronounce it right, you're not saved!"). I just prefer to call Him by the original Name.

I sometimes type Jesus and other times Yehoshua, though I suppose Joshua would be more correct over Jesus since there was no J common in the English language until around the 16th century. Prior to that time, those words now shown with a J were pronounced as though the J was a Y. So 'Joshua', even in English, is proven conclusively to be (Yeshua, Yahshua, or Yehoshua) when the original Y sound is used. Thus, it is impossible for 'Jesus' to be anything close to the true name, because the 'J' sound did not exist when he was alive.

138 posted on 09/23/2006 12:54:40 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a MAN that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God:)
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To: jude24
Quite frankly, what do we as Christians have to learn from Christ-rejecting rabbis?

Mat 23:23
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier [matters] of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

He placed 'moral' law above 'ceremonial' law.  This is why some 'thought' that he 'broke' the law.  You have to remember that Jesus taught in a period of transition, during the development of different schools of interpretation in Judaism. It is inevitable that there would be variant interpretations of the Law as recorded in the Gospels. With the Pharisees, Jesus accepts the Law of the Sabbath; he differs only in the interpretations of that law as found in the Oral Law. The Oral Law detailed the many conditions that allowed for the breaking of the Sabbath.

For example, the Rabbis of the Hillel School of Pharisaism declared that is was permissible to violate the Sabbath to preserve life, that in doing so you violate a Sabbath to ensure the observance of future Sabbaths. This was accepted interpretation by the Hillel Pharisees of which Jesus belonged, but not to the Shammai Pharisees or the Sadducees who were ultra-strict, always adhering to the 'letter of the Law' over the 'spirit of the Law' (Oral Law). It has been said that in elevating the spirit of the Law over the letter of the Law one can understand the minimizing of the ceremonial laws. But it is not that simple according to Jesus. As gentiles, we are not aware that the Oral Law brought a proper understanding to the Written Law if matters were in doubt.

These (least commandments) you ought to have done, without neglecting the others (grave-weightier commandments). In drawing such a contrast, Jesus does not annul the Written Law (613 laws), nor even the ceremonial laws; he only brings priority to the obedience of all the Laws.   Jesus did not stand against the Written Law or Oral Law, nor even Pharisaism, but only against the elevation of the 'letter of the Law' above the 'spirit of the Law'.

Rev 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last [to be] more than the first.

Notice that works is mentioned twice.  The 'moral laws' and 'ceremonial laws'.

139 posted on 09/23/2006 1:01:38 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a MAN that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God:)
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To: topcat54

So, you think that Jewish parents, that were strong adherents to the Judaic principles and lived in a Jewish contextual setting would give their son a Greek name?


140 posted on 09/23/2006 1:15:26 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a MAN that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God:)
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To: Buggman
Simply because it was in the late Biblical period that the practice arose of not pronouncing the Tetragrammaton or even its shortened version Yah.

Which seems odd, since YHWH wanted us to use and call Him by Name.

Exodus 3 (JPS Tanach - 1917 - Divine Name Restored)
(15) And God said moreover unto Moses: 'Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: YHWH, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you; this is My name for ever, and this is My memorial unto all generations.

Exodus 6
(2) And God spoke unto Moses, and said unto him: 'I am YHWH; (3) and I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, as God Almighty, but by My name YHWH I made Me not known to them. (4) And I have also established My covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their sojournings, wherein they sojourned.

Exodus 9
(13) And YHWH said unto Moses: 'Rise up early in the morning, and stand before Pharaoh, and say unto him: Thus saith YHWH, the God of the Hebrews: Let My people go, that they may serve Me. (14) For I will this time send all My plagues upon thy person, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that thou mayest know that there is none like Me in all the earth. (15) Surely now I had put forth My hand, and smitten thee and thy people with pestilence, and thou hadst been cut off from the earth. (16) But in very deed for this cause have I made thee to stand, to show thee My power, and that My name may be declared throughout all the earth.


8034 Hebrew - shem {shame}
1)
name
a)
name
b)
reputation, fame, glory
c)
the Name (as designation of God)
d)
memorial, monument

2Ch 7:14
(14) if My people, upon whom My name is called, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek My face, and turn from their evil ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Jeremiah 23
(26) How long shall this be? Is it in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies, and the prophets of the deceit of their own heart? (27) That think to cause My people to forget My name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers forgot My name for Baal.


Zechariah 13:9
(9) And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried; they shall call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say: 'It is My people', and they shall say: 'YHWH is my God.'

These are just a couple of examples, but, it's clear that YHWH was concerned that people would forget His name. Oddly enough 'YHWH' is removed from most texts and the pagan god 'Baal' is left in.

141 posted on 09/23/2006 5:33:42 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a MAN that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God:)
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To: Buggman; Diego1618; DouglasKC
Hi Bugman,

We celebrated The Feast of Trumpets today for the first time. This is actually the second Feast Day my family and I have celebrated. It just made sense to me. So many Sunday keeping and even Sabbatarian churches look forward to the return of our Lord, but to actually celebrate a Holiday in honor of the Advent, to hear the scriptures prophesying it, to hear the scrptures of the new earth, and in a room with so many like minded Christians, was very fulfilling.

142 posted on 09/23/2006 6:02:17 PM PDT by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: Buggman

Why do you have to turn something as sacred as a Jewish holy day into psuedo mithraism? Give you Jewish brothers a break.


143 posted on 09/23/2006 6:39:17 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: kerryusama04; Buggman; Diego1618
So many Sunday keeping and even Sabbatarian churches look forward to the return of our Lord, but to actually celebrate a Holiday in honor of the Advent, to hear the scriptures prophesying it, to hear the scrptures of the new earth, and in a room with so many like minded Christians, was very fulfilling.

You're right, it's a day so full of significance and history. I'm awed that we celebrate the same day that God commanded to be kept thousands and thousands of years ago.

144 posted on 09/23/2006 8:55:04 PM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: ET(end tyranny)

You missed the point, but thanks for playing.


145 posted on 09/24/2006 9:53:25 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: DouglasKC; kerryusama04
You're right, it's a day so full of significance and history. I'm awed that we celebrate the same day that God commanded to be kept thousands and thousands of years ago.
And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work. For you it is a day of blowing the trumpets. You shall offer a burnt offering as a sweet aroma to the Lord: one young bull, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year, without blemish. Their grain offering shall be fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for the bull, two-tenths for the ram, and one-tenth for each of the seven lambs; also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, to make atonement for you; besides the burnt offering with its grain offering for the New Moon, the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings, according to their ordinance, as a sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to the Lord.
And you made an offering by fire to celebrate this day as it was commanded to be kept thousands of years ago?
146 posted on 09/24/2006 9:59:44 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54; DouglasKC
And you made an offering by fire to celebrate this day as it was commanded to be kept thousands of years ago?

Nope.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and today, and forever.
Heb 13:9 Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.
Heb 13:10 We have an altar, whereof they have no right to eat which serve the tabernacle.
Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.
Heb 13:13 Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach.
Heb 13:14 For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come.
Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Heb 13:16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
Heb 13:18 Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.
Heb 13:19 But I beseech you the rather to do this, that I may be restored to you the sooner.
Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
Heb 13:21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

147 posted on 09/24/2006 11:08:32 AM PDT by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: topcat54; kerryusama04
And you made an offering by fire to celebrate this day as it was commanded to be kept thousands of years ago?

Heb 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God;

This doesn't mean that the day is done away with, but under the new covenant, it's observance has been modified. If you still have trouble understanding, then I would suggest reading all of Hebrews.

148 posted on 09/24/2006 11:17:05 AM PDT by DouglasKC
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To: topcat54
And you made an offering by fire to celebrate this day as it was commanded to be kept thousands of years ago?

I doubt that they did.

Jeremiah 7
22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

Hosea 3
4 For the children of Israel shall sit solitary many days without king, and without prince, and without sacrifice, and without pillar, and without ephod or teraphim;
5 afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek YHWH their God, and David their king; and shall come trembling unto YHWH and to His goodness in the end of days.

Hosea 6
6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Hosea 14
2 Take with you words, and return unto YHWH; say unto Him: 'Forgive all iniquity, and accept that which is good; so will we render for bullocks the offering of our lips.

Prayers instead of sacrifices.

(JPS) Isaiah 1
10 Hear the word of YHWH, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah.
11 To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto Me? saith YHWH; I am full of the burnt-offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats.
12 When ye come to appear before Me, who hath required this at your hand, to trample My courts?

13 Bring no more vain oblations; it is an offering of abomination unto Me; new moon and sabbath, the holding of convocations -- I cannot endure iniquity along with the solemn assembly.
14 Your new moons and your appointed seasons My soul hateth; they are a burden unto Me; I am weary to bear them.
15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide Mine eyes from you; yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear; your hands are full of blood.

16 Wash you, make you clean, put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes, cease to do evil;
17 Learn to do well; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith YHWH; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land;
20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword; for the mouth of YHWH hath spoken.

These verses in my opinion really tell the story.  YHWH asks them 'who told them to sacrifice animals?'  He calls them vain oblations.  Why?  Some claim its is because the people were not contrite, but I disagree.  The iniquity among the solemn assembly IS the oblations. YHWH tells us it is because the people are doing it for themselves (vanity) of their own accord and not YHWH's.  YHWH calls them an abomination.  It is my belief that this IS why the Temple keeps getting destroyed.  Because YHWH considers the sacrifices an abomination.   YHWH even tells them that they have blood on their hands.


Psalm 51
16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

1 Samuel 15:22
And Samuel said: 'Hath YHWH as great delight in burnt-offerings and sacrifices, as in hearkening to the voice of YHWH? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Psalm 40
6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

Micah 6
6 'Wherewith shall I come before YHWH, and bow myself before God on high? Shall I come before Him with burnt-offerings, with calves of a year old?
7 Will YHWH be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousands of rivers of oil? Shall I give my first-born for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?'
8 It hath been told thee, O man, what is good, and what YHWH doth require of thee: only to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.

Throughout the Jewish scriptures, the prophets declared that repentance and charity are more pleasing to God for atonement than a blood sacrifice. I think there is good indication that sacrifices were never meant to be. Jeremiah 7:22-24. But, since they were utilized, against YHWH's wishes, I think sacrifices were to be replaced with PRAYER! Hosea 14:2.

Notice also the verse about how YHWH doesn't require the sacrifice of a firstborn for the transgression of sin -- atonement! SPEAKS VOLUMES.

Jeremiah 31:2 Thus saith YHWH: the people that were left of the sword have found grace in the wilderness, even Israel, when I go to cause him to rest.

God promises the descendants of Israel who, through captivity, exile, and intermarriage with Gentiles became assimilated and inculturated Gentiles today that they will find "grace in the wilderness".

The exile mentioned in Isaiah

From the JPS (1917) Jewish Bible Tanakh
8 In full measure, when Thou sendest her away, Thou dost contend with her; He hath removed her with His rough blast in the day of the east wind.
9 Therefore by this shall the iniquity of Jacob be expiated, and this is all the fruit of taking away his sin: when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in pieces, so that the Asherim and the sun-images shall rise no more.

Their exile was their atonement. No blood.  

149 posted on 09/24/2006 2:04:04 PM PDT by ET(end tyranny) (John 8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a MAN that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God:)
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To: DouglasKC; kerryusama04
This doesn't mean that the day is done away with,

Of course it does. Hebrews does not indicate the day was merely changed. It indicates the day was abolished with the passing away of the old covenant with the priesthood and sacrificial rituals.

"For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away." (Heb. 8:12,13)

All of the pold covenant ritual days passed away. There is no other way to read the words written in Hebrews.

150 posted on 09/24/2006 4:58:07 PM PDT by topcat54
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