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To: Campion
Do you like his teaching on the final cup? Is it Biblical?
I think it's a valid insight, but it's just his opinion, and he recognizes that.

Actually it is a clearly FALSE teaching to anyone that reads the scriptures. Read the account for yourself and then compare it to the scripture he uses and his teaching on it .

"... There are four cups that represent the structure of the Passover. The first cup is the blessing of the festival day, it's the kiddush cup. The second cup of wine occurs really at the beginning of the Passover liturgy itself, and that involves the singing of psalm 113. And then there's the third cup, the cup of blessing which from your Link

involves the actual meal, the unleavened bread and so on. And then, before the fourth cup, you sing the great hil-el psalms: 114, 115, 116, 117 and 118. And having sung those psalms you proceed to the fourth cup which for all practical purposes is the climax of the Passover. Now what's the problem? The problem is that gospel account says something like this: after the third cup is drunk Jesus says, "I shall not drink again of the fruit of the vine until I am entering into the kingdom of God."

http://webpages.marshall.edu/~trimbol3/4thcup4.htm
The problem is that Scott is bending the word of God to fit his new Theology Scott is bends the word of God to fit his new Theology . From Youngs LITERAL translation
Luke 22 18   for I say to you that I may not drink of the produce of the vine till the reign of God may come.'

From the AmericanStandard
Luke 22 18 for I say unto you, I shall not drink from henceforth of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

To change the text as Scott says is dishonest and he does it to fit his new theology

"They put a sponge full of the sour wine on hyssop and held it to his mouth. When Jesus had received the sour wine he said the words that are spoken of in the fourth cup consummation, "It is finished." What is the it referring to? That grammatical question began really bothering me at some point. "

That vinegar was not the "fourth cup "and in his heart Scott knows this. ..or he is very deceived..That cup will be drunk at the marriage supper of the Lamb...

Mat 22:2   The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

Rev 19:9And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed [are] they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.

And shame on Scott "it is finished "was the atonement ...The sacrifice was complete...there was no more that needed to be done...it was finished..

276 posted on 11/03/2006 1:00:24 PM PST by ears_to_hear ("I once was lost but now am found, was blind but now I see. ")
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To: ears_to_hear
That vinegar was not the "fourth cup "and in his heart Scott knows this. ..or he is very deceived..That cup will be drunk at the marriage supper of the Lamb...

And shame on Scott "it is finished "was the atonement ...The sacrifice was complete...there was no more that needed to be done...it was finished..

I guess you didn't read very carefully, because Scott points out that Romans 4:25 says that Christ "was raised for our justification," meaning that the total of his redemptive work cannot have been completed when he said "It is finished."

But more to the point, you just contradicted yourself, because if the fourth cup has not yet been drunk, then the Passover is still going on, and it really isn't "finished".

Better make up your mind. :-)

278 posted on 11/03/2006 1:14:00 PM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: ears_to_hear
Your posts would be a fascinating psychological study. The contortions you have to make in your latest attempt are astounding.

What signals the coming of the Kingdom of God? If Scott Hahn is correct, it would be Christ's sacrifice on the cross. This is the same offering shown to John in Revelation occurring in Heaven!

That vinegar was not the "fourth cup "and in his heart Scott knows this. ..or he is very deceived..That cup will be drunk at the marriage supper of the Lamb...

Bold statement. However, you can't back it up. Jesus was priest and passover sacrifice on the cross. He is also the one who is the lamb, standing as if slain in Revelation. The cup of consummation is the cup drunk by the priest (Jesus) at the consummation of the passover sacrifice (Jesus).

Scott's interpretation makes much more sense than yours.

And shame on Scott "it is finished "was the atonement ...The sacrifice was complete...there was no more that needed to be done...it was finished..

Shame on you for putting words in our Lord's mouth!

280 posted on 11/03/2006 1:14:22 PM PST by pgyanke (We can't share the blessings of peace with those for whom violence is holy imperative. -andy58-in-nh)
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To: ears_to_hear; Campion
From Youngs LITERAL translation

Young's Literal Translation is not to be trusted. It's "literalism" is too often deceptive.

347 posted on 11/03/2006 7:39:33 PM PST by jude24 ("I will oppose the sword if it's not wielded well, because my enemies are men like me.")
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