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It's also interesting and a matter of concern to me that the thread was started with a query about what the doctrine of the Trinity is. Whether it's a good doctrine, whether it's scripturally based, whether Catholics are a bunch of self-deluding and apostatic idolaters --- all these are different questions. I wonder if the original poster thinks the question was addressed. So much easier and more efficient to condemn something without taking the time to understand it.

The original poster is a troll.

My original post mentions nothing about Catholicism.

Catholicism wasn't brought up in my conversation until A8 mentioned it at 102.

My questioning about the value of scripture was obscured by the respondents, not me. None of these respondents will answer the question, so I re-worded it. Still nothing.

This is a discussion where precision will matter, I think. Maybe it would help if you said what you meant by the value of Scripture. What sorts of value might it have? Of course, if the real purpose of the question is so that you can pounce on something or somebody and say, "See THERE? They ARE vicious apostates!" why don't you just go on ahead without me, okay?

Yes, precision matters, but it is a two way street. Until A8 or Campion tell me what the basis of their faith is, then I am at a loss to be able to debate them. My query on the origin of Sunday worship is a direct indicator of what the basis is for one's faith. I hold to the Biblical standard for doctrine as outlined in Deut 13:1, Isa 8:20, and 2 Ti 3:16. Those who believe that Mat 16:18 grants unmitigated power to one man whom they believe founded the Church at Rome and has passed this power down through the ages and all doctrine flows from this power should be proud to say so. To debate the scriptural validity of a doctrine with those who hold to this belief is an exercise in futility. I have no compunction publishing what I believe here for all the world to believe. If my opponents would oblige and reciprocate, then there would be a basis for debate. Until then, it is just an exercise to get me to type a lot to placate the literary sensibilities of a few.

I have a lot going on here at home and won't have a lot of time to dedicate to the thread, so take your time in responding.

FRegards, Chris

Yes, precision matters, but it is a two way street. Until A8 or Campion tell me what the basis of their faith is, then I am at a loss to be able to debate them. My query on the origin of Sunday worship is a direct indicator of what the basis is for one's faith. I hold to the Biblical standard for doctrine as outlined in Deut 13:1, Isa 8:20, and 2 Ti 3:16. Those who believe that Mat 16:18 grants unmitigated power to one man whom they believe founded the Church at Rome and has passed this power down through the ages and all doctrine flows from this power should be proud to say so. To debate the scriptural validity of a doctrine with those who hold to this belief is an exercise in futility. I have no compunction publishing what I believe here for all the world to believe. If my opponents would oblige and reciprocate, then there would be a basis for debate. Until then, it is just an exercise to get me to type a lot to placate the literary sensibilities of a few.

Maybe we don't want to debate you. I didn't come here to win or lose an argument, did you? I came here to take another look at the problem of expressing the doctrine. Why should your agenda triumph (and how do you KNOW the poster is a troll?)

Can you see how some of us might think (rightly or wrongly) that was a tendentious and needlessly confrontative over-simplification of the question which would lead to a false oppostion?

Somebody asks me, "Do you love or hate your teenager?" I want to say, "Well, it's not so simple ......"

If you add to yhour discourse suggestions about whether I worship idols or St Augustine or things of that kind, I'm going to be tempted to think that EITHER you are tyring to provoke a fight OR you don't know much about Catholicism.

If I subconsciously believe something, why then it's NOT conscious (tautology alert!) and you are going to have to get me to where I can see that that's what I believe before your objections to it will make sense to me.

My questioning about the value of scripture was obscured by the respondents, not me. None of these respondents will answer the question, so I re-worded it. Still nothing.

I don't understand your question about the value of Scripture, in part because I don't know what kind of answer you are looking for. I already told you that Scriptural is "immensely valuable", but you didn't like that. Do you want a number between 1 and 10? A dollar amount?

Until A8 or Campion tell me what the basis of their faith is,

I already told you in #102.

-A8