Posted on 11/16/2006 9:39:45 AM PST by Blogger
Theres nothing in the article that proves that the early church fathers were "anti-semitic". Just hyper-sensitive, PC overeaction by the author.
I think that is a true statement, but I doubt the author of this article feels this way. That is the difference.
As for "try to be ...constructive.." how is it "constructive to cite... Saint Fulgentius of Ruspe (467-533 CE) - In his “Writings”, written about 510 CE, he states “Hold most firmly and doubt not that not all the pagans, but also all the Jews, heretic and schismatics who depart from the present life outside the Catholic Church, are about to go into eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”
*St. Fulgence of Ruspe lived from Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi 467-527. Your author got both his name and date of death wrong. Then, he compounded the error by labelling the quote antisemitic. It is nothing of the sort. It is a PARTIAL QUOTE used in the service of a polemic against antisemtiism.
What was quoted was lifted from the Saint's Rule of Faith, part of which was concerned with listing those who, if they were not members of the Catholic Chuch, would go to Hell. The topic was MEMBERSHIP IN THE CHURCH AND SALVATION. It ain't about antisemitism.
I have problems with the others listed here as they are also tendentiously treated and tweaked to "prove" they were antisemites
If "preaching the Gospel to Jews" is identical with "anti-semitism" ... then what?
Either:
a) Preaching the Gospel to Jews is a shameful thing
or
b) "Anti-semitism" is a meaningless epithet.
Your statement is the overreaction. Did he say that all of the early church fathers were anti-semitic? No. He named some antisemitic statements. Heck most of the world has been anti-semitic since Israel first became a nation. The author's article is NOT to castigate the world for being antisemitic. He documents antisemitism that has existed. His point is as Christians we should not allow such thinking to exist in our own lives. The hypersensitivity not with the Jewish believer. But even if it was, I think having been kicked out of several countries and having had millions of your own murdered might tend to make you a bit hypersensitive.
Don't ignore reality in order to excuse the church from some real wrongs it did. Rather, learn from history and treat everyone with respect today. That is the point.
He doesn't. He is a Messianic Jewish Believer. Obviously, he didn't consider an effort to convert him antisemitic.
My community is that of the Christian faith. I own what has happened in the past and learn from it. You apparently wish to excuse it and change the subject. I'd rather admit the guilt of Christianity (because it most certainly is guilty- though not because it was being particularly "Christian" at the time) and strive to keep it from happening again.
I corrected the record on the mislabelling of St Fulgence as an antisemite.
Feel free to thank me for making a correction of your post. Everyone is entitled to their good name, right?
The Catholic Church is the real Christian Church. It has always been Holy..as in One, Holy, Catholic... (it's in all the Creeds). There has never been a time when the Spouse of Christ was "not particularly "Christian."
You, brother, are not acting particularly Christian when you accept at face value the putative accuracy of the antisemitic label.
Try to be more constructive
*Josephus blamed the over zealous Jews for the destruction..Josephus, just another antisemite..
Saint Ambrose, Bishop of Milan (340-397 CE) - A bishop was accused of instigating the burning of a synagogue by an anti-Semitic mob, and Emperor Theodosius was preparing to order the bishop to rebuild it. Ambrose discouraged the Emperor from taking this step because it would appear to show special favoritism to the Jews.
*How is that proof of antisemitism?
Augustine of Hippo in Book 18, Chapter 46, of The City of God. wrote “The Jews who slew Jesus, and would not believe in Him, because it behoved Him to die and rise again, were yet more miserably wasted by the Romans, and utterly rooted out from their kingdom, where aliens had already ruled over them, and were dispersed through the lands (so that indeed there is no place where they are not), and are thus by their own Scriptures a testimony to us that we have not forged the prophecies about Christ.” [2] Augustine deems this scattering important because he believes that this is a fulfillment of certain prophecies, thus proving that Jesus was the Messiah. This is because Augustine believes that the Jews who were dispersed were the enemies of the Christian Church. He also quotes “that the Jews should be left alive and suffering as a perpetual reminder of their murder of Christ”.
*Here is the quote in context...
CHAP. 46.--OF THE BIRTH OF OUR SAVIOUR, WHEREBY THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH; AND OF THE DISPERSION OF THE JEWS AMONG ALL NATIONS, AS HAD BEEN PROPHESIED.
While Herod, therefore, reigned in Judea, and Caesar Augustus was emperor at Rome, the state of the republic being already changed, and the world being set at peace by him, Christ was born in Bethlehem of Judah, man manifest out of a human virgin, God hidden out of God the Father. For so had the prophet foretold: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive in the womb, and bring forth a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel, which, being interpreted, is, God with us."(2) He did many miracles that He might commend God in Himself, some of which, even as many as seemed sufficient to proclaim Him, are contained in the evangelic Scripture. The first of these is, that He was so wonderfully born, and the last, that with His body raised up again from the dead He ascended into heaven. But the Jews who slew Him, and would not believe in Him, because it behoved Him to die and rise again, were yet more miserably wasted by the Romans, and utterly rooted out from their kingdom, where aliens had already ruled over them, and were dispersed through the lands (so that indeed there is no place where they are not), and are thus by their own Scriptures a testimony to us that we have not forged the prophecies about Christ. And very many of them, considering this, even before His passion, but chiefly after His resurrection, believed on Him, of whom it was predicted, "Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, the remnant shall be saved."(3) But the rest are blinded, of whom it was predicted, "Let their table be made before them a trap, and a retribution, and a stumbling-block. Let their eyes be darkened lest they see, and bow down their back alway."(4) Therefore, when they do not believe our Scriptures, their own, which they blindly read, are fulfilled in them, lest perchance any one should say that the Christians have forged these prophecies about Christ which are quoted under the name of the sibyl, or of others, if such there be, who do not belong to the Jewish people. For us, indeed, those suffice which are quoted from the books of our enemies, to whom we make our acknowledgment, on account of this testimony which, in spite of themselves, they contribute by their possession of these books, while they themselves are dispersed among all nations, wherever the Church of Christ is spread abroad. For a prophecy about this thing was sent before in the Psalms, which they also read, where it is written, "My God, His mercy shall prevent me. My God hath shown me concerning mine enemies, that Thou shalt not slay them, lest they should at last forget Thy law: disperse them in Thy might."(5) Therefore God has shown the Church in her enemies the Jews the grace of His compassion, since, as saith the apostle, "their offence is the salvation of the Gentiles."(6) And therefore He has not slain them, that is, He has not let the knowledge that they are Jews be lost in them, although they have been conquered by the Romans, lest they should forget the law of God, and their testimony should be of no avail in this matter of which we treat. But it was not enough that he should say, "Slay them not, lest they should at last forget Thy law," unless he had also added, "Disperse them;" because if they had only been in their own land with that testimony of the Scriptures, and not every where, certainly the Church which is everywhere could not have had them as witnesses among all nations to the prophecies which were sent before concerning Christ.
*That's another false charge I have exposed. Feel free to thank me at any time...
The Church is God's people. It is the faithful remnant of racial Israel, and the ingrafted memebers of all other nations who have accepted the faith of Abraham as preached by the prophets and by Our Lord Jesus Christ. This is the message of the Gospel. See Jonah, Romans 11, Galatians 3, Acts 10, St. John 15, etc.
Agreed that the church is God's people. Remnant Israel is God's people as well. There is an ideology that says God is through with biological Israel (they aren't really a race unless semitic counts, but do share a common lineage). This is not biblical. The Bible indicates that after a time of blinding (in part), God will revisit His people and draw her to Himself. Those who hate her are not behaving as Christians.
Fair enough. And, yes, Arabs are Semites as well. I specifically look at it as a strong or even subtle prejudice against Jews and Israelites (henceforth, "Jews" as a generic term - but recognizing that a Jew is mainly someone from the tribe of Judah and then there are other tribes recognized as Israelites) for some irrational, unhistorical reason. For example, "The Jews poisoned the wells" is blatantly anti-semitic. "The Jews cause all of the wars of the world" is another anti-semitic statement. "The Jews were responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus" may or may not be. If one is implying that they were SOLELY responsible, it is a lie and is anti-Jewish garbage. Jew and Gentile alike participated in the crucifixion and some Jews and Gentiles did not. It is much better to say the Sanhedrin of Jesus' day and those who the Sanhedrin stirred up were partially responsible and the Romans were as well. That is factually correct. Unfortunately, we've had a lot of Christians making idiotic statements blaming the Jews for everything. This is the kind of anti-semitism that we should guard against as the church. And, nobody's house is clean. Denominationally, pretty much all have transgressed in some respect.
I didn't write the article.
Of course they were.
Jesus does not have a spouse, yet...It's future...
Besides, if He did, you missed the wedding...
You know the hearts and minds of the early church fathers? How old are you?
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