Posted on 11/16/2006 9:39:45 AM PST by Blogger
I took the time to track down the partial qotes and in doing so I exposed the fact the men quoted were unfairly labelled as antisemitic.
I pinged you each time I corrected the record and you never once acknowledged the author had erred.
Is that Christian?
I do know the intent of the author because I know of him and his ministry.
As to your taking the time to track down partial quotes, I have not engaged you in this debate because your intent is to start a religious war and make this an anti-Catholic thread. I'm not going there. This thread was about Christianity as a whole and its attitude towards the Jews. If you can not recognize that the Jews have been mistreated in history by people in the name of Christianity then I can not help it. I will not get in an anti-Catholic debate with you. We will leave it at there.
And, yes, it is quite Christian to not wish to argue with you. Good day.
There was the "Wife" of YHWH, whom he will be reunited with. There is also the Bride of Christ.
The wife of YHWH is Israel
The bride of Christ is the Church
*I told you my intent was to protect the good names of Saints falsely accused of being antisemitic. Despite my clear profession of intent, you insist on claiming my intent is malign. That is as far from Christian an act as is possible.
Please tell you friend to register here and respond to my posts. It is clear you will not.
Your expressed intent and your obvious intent are two different things. You try to bait me by calling me unchristian. You want to start a Catholic war. Take it up on a Catholic thread. I will not be baited. And learn to read. I'm through with this thread.
Not at all. I do not lie. I told you the truth about my motivation. And, to prove my motivation was as I said it was, I went out and tracked-down the quotes and set them into context. Why would I have done that if my motivation was as you falsely claim it is?
I am through discussing this with you.
The author of this article apparently doesn't consider Muslim anti-Semitism to be a problem at all. Only Christians are anti-semitic. I also object to his categorizing Church Fathers and saints such as Thomas Aquinas as anti-Semites. But what do you expect from someone who uses the abbreviation "CE" instead of "AD"?
ATTENTION: LISTEN CLOSELY! PARTICULARLY THE CATHOLICS ON THIS THREAD WHO WANT TO HAVE A PITTY PARTY BECAUSE THEY THINK A SAINT WAS PICKED ON. THIS ARTICLE IS NOT AN ATTACK ON CATHOLICS!
*I was correcting the record. I do object to having Saints falsely labeled antisemites. How is that a pity party?
IT IS AN ARTICLE CONTAINING STATEMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN CONSIDERED ANTISEMITIC THROUGHOUT THE YEARS WITHIN THE REALM OF CHRISTIANITY.
*That is merely question-begging. I don't consider the quotes I dealt with antisemitic. There certainly is not common argreement those saints were antisemitic
WHETHER THEY ARE TRULY ANTI-SEMITIC OR NOT IS IRRELEVANT.
*So, the truth does not matter. It is the seriousness of the charge...now, where have I heard that before?
WHETHER A CHURCH FATHER SAID IT OR JOE CHURCHGOER SAID IT IS IRRELEVANT.
*If it IS irrelevant, then WHY put the words into the mouth of a Saint and mischaracterise it as antisemtiism?
WHETHER A CATHOLIC SAID IT OR A BAPTIST SAID IT IS IRRELEVANT.
* I don't think so. I don't se a single protestant quoted. Am I to believe only Catholics are antisemitic?
PEOPLE FROM THE JEWISH FAITH HAVE BEEN ATTACKED BY PEOPLE IN THE NAME OF CHRISTIANITY FOR CENTURIES.< READ A HISTORY BOOK! LOOK AT THE QUOTES AND TRY, JUST TRY, TO SEE WHY SOMEONE COULD SEE THEM (IN WHATEVER CONTEXT THEY ARE IN) AS A PERSONAL ATTACK ON THEMSELVES.
*The quotes are taken out of context. I proved that. And why are lies about Catholic Sainst to be accepted at face-value and why should we Catholics not think that a personal attack?
THE SAME OFFENSE ALL OF THE CATHOLICS ARE TAKING ON THIS THREAD IS THE SAME OFFENSE JEWS HAVE FELT FOR CENTURIES -
*If Jews were misquoted to cast them in the worst possible light, they have every right to object. Every right and every duty.
MINUS THE EXPULSION FROM "CHRISTIAN" COUNTRIES, THE BETRAYAL FROM "CHRISTIAN" NAZIS, AND THE BLINDING SILENCE TO OUTRIGHT ANTAGONISM OF "CHRISTIAN" LEADERS AND COUNTRIES TODAY TO THE PROBLEMS WHICH ISRAEL FACES.
*What, exactly, is a christian Nazi? Is that sort of like a Christian Klansman?
TRY TO GET OUT OF YOUR ASSININE ARGUMENTATIVE MODE AND SEE THE POINT. IT MAY BE HARD, BUT TRY!!!!!
*I guess the point is to admit guilt even when the charges are acknowledged as based upon untruths?
People who prosletize look down on Judaism. I do not look down on Christians or Christianity and would never attempt to convert another person.
I can certainly see your point. But, not everyone who tries to convert someone of another faith is looking down upon that person. If someone truly believes the tenets of Christianity, to not at least try to share one's faith with the hope of conversion would be unloving. It has nothing to do with a better-than-you attitude; though that most certainly exists in spades. It has to do with an understanding of the human condition (for all humans, including Christians) and a desire for that person to have God's best. Again, if one believes Jesus is the only Savior; to not share him with someone would be unloving.
I love my religion but feel if you don't want to love it, that is your problem.
I understand, because I feel the same way. But, what I guess I need you to at least consider (even if you don't buy it), is that "proselytizing" is not or should not be a hateful thing (though I've seen it done in a very ugly way and would understand if anyone rejected that kind of 'witnessing).
Look at it this way, if you had a friend who was about to walk into a building that had doors which locked behind them and shut a person into that building to where they couldn't get out; and you knew that they were going to torch the building and everything in it within the next 20 minutes - would it be loving of you to stand by and say and do nothing? Would you be a friend?
The Christian faith teaches that Jesus is the only way. It is an exclusive religion. (There are others identifying themselves as Christians who would disagree, but I am speaking in General). It also teaches that those who die without Jesus will die and go to hell (be they from a Christian family, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, Atheistic, or whatever family). If one truly believes this, then it would be unloving to not say something to the people one comes in contact with. It would be "unChristian." It has nothing to do with looking down at one's religion (though I know some do), but rather trying to save someone from pain.
If that person that one is sharing with rejects the message, I love them just the same as if they had accepted it. I love them because they are my friend. I witness to them because I am their friend. Either way, we are still friends.
Many will object to this "exclusive" view of Christianity. I understand that. But, really, isn't all religion exclusive? I mean even if you believe that all religions are true, you believe that exclusively to the exclusion of the idea that some or only one religion is true. Judaism is an exclusive belief. It believes what it believes exclusively (even if it makes room for other faiths - that is seen as an exclusive thing).
If you disagree with what I am saying and try to convince me otherwise, does that mean you are looking down on my religion? I don't believe so. It means we are having a disagreement over religion.
I can not, nor would I want to, force anyone to believe in my faith. But, I myself do share it - not out of some feeling of superiority (because the more you understand about what Scripture teaches about humans, really we have nothing to feel superior about. After all, David said "The Lord is my shepherd." Making us Sheep. Pretty dumb creatures or at least not half as smart as we think we are.
Anyway, I'm starting to ramble a little. But I hope you saw where I'm coming from when I say it isn't looking down on a religion. Rather, it is out of love that we share.
Using all capital letters in your post is the equivalent of yelling at someone. I guess that's the only way you think you can win your argument. Heaven knows you aren't using logic or facts.
I wish I could make sense of Blogger's post but I can't because it doesn't.
Just because Jews might interpret a saint's remarks as being anti-semitic, doesn't mean that those remarks were, in fact, anti-semitic. Moreover, Blogger is wrong to imply that the Nazis were Christians. Naziism was an anti-Christian ideology and the Nazis persecuted and killed many Christians.
But my question is, what is the point of bringing this up? What purpose does it serve to go over the same tired litany of sins that Christians have committed against Jews over the course of the centuries? Most Christians today are not anti-Semitic and it is Muslims, not Christians, who are fueling the current resurgence of anti-semitism around the world. It isn't Chrisitans who threaten Israel. Ignoring the current threat while fixating on a threat that no longer exists does not make sense.
How can this be? Finally a post that makes some common sense out of all this.
Thanks, Steadfast. You did it for me. ;-)
I can tell that you are a very kind person from your posts and I appreciate that. However,I prefer my religion - which is why I stay in it - and I don't feel that "you are going to hell" or anything like that because you don't believe in my faith. Judaism does not believe in proslytyzing because we believe that there are other ways to G-d. I also respect the Righteous Gentiles and am grateful to them. All the best, . . .
All the best to you as well, juliej.
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