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Homily of the Ecumenical Patriarch before Benedict (Fr. Z's Commentary)
What Does The Prayer Really Say? ^ | 12/1/2006 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 12/01/2006 7:48:24 PM PST by Pyro7480

During the Divine Liturgy for the Feast of St. Andrew the Ecumenical Patriarch gave a homily that got my attention. Remember how important the Divine Liturgy is for the identity of the Orthodox.

Frankly, I think liturgy is a serious issue for ecumenical dialogue with the East. Think about this. They look at the stupid things the Latins have done and are doing to the sacred liturgy, about how those desiring traditional liturgy from lay people to priests, are marginalized and berated. They see the leaders of a group of "traditionalists" are ecommunicated. And they are going to get closer to Rome? Would they hope that their traditions would be respected were they to give greater submission to the authority of Peter which the Pope of Rome exercises?

Here is the text of the Patriarch’s homily (my emphasis and comments).

With the grace of God, Your Holiness, we have been blessed to enter the joy of the Kingdom, to "see the true light and receive the heavenly Spirit." Every celebration of the Divine Liturgy is a powerful and inspiring con-celebration of heaven and of history. [BOOM. This concise phrase also expresses what the Latin Church thinks. This is an encounter with the transcendent. An encounter which transforms the human experience.] Every Divine Liturgy is both an anamnesis of the past and an anticipation of the Kingdom. [Holy Mass makes the historical event present in a sacramental way, which is no less "real" than the reality we sense and touch, etc.] We are convinced that during this Divine Liturgy, we have once again been transferred spiritually in three directions: toward the kingdom of heaven where the angels celebrate; toward the celebration of the liturgy through the centuries; and toward the heavenly kingdom to come. [Perfect. Beautifully put.]

This overwhelming continuity with heaven as well as with history means that the Orthodox [And Latin!] liturgy is the mystical experience and profound conviction that "Christ was, is, and ever shall be in our midst!" For in Christ, there is a deep connection between past, present, and future. In this way, the liturgy is more than merely the recollection of Christ’s words and acts. It is the realization of the very presence of Christ Himself, who has promised to be wherever two or three are gathered in His name.

At the same time, we recognize that the rule of prayer is the rule of faith (lex orandi lex credendi), [When I heard this phrase, in Latin, from the lips of the Ecumenical Patriarch I almost did a spit-take on my monitor! In my opinion, the Patriarch is letting us know one of their serious points of concern about their Western brothers. What are we doing with our liturgy? If you Latins are celebrating your Mass in the way we see you celebrating, what on earth do you believe? Do you believe what we believe?] that the doctrines of the Person of Christ and of the Holy Trinity have left an indelible mark on the liturgy, which comprises one of the undefined doctrines, "revealed to us in mystery," of which St. Basil the Great so eloquently spoke. This is why, in liturgy, we are reminded of the need to reach unity in faith as well as in prayer. Therefore, we kneel in humility [This is amazingly ironic. The Orthodox don’t kneel as much as Latins do, in one sense, as when we enter our churches. No… wait… in a lot of places you never see Latins kneel at all anymore, do you? Especially during Mass?] and repentance before the living God and our Lord Jesus Christ, whose precious Name we bear and yet at the same time whose seamless garment we have divided. We confess in sorrow that we are not yet able to celebrate the holy sacraments in unity. And we pray that the day may come when this sacramental unity will be realized in its fullness.

And yet, Your Holiness and beloved brother in Christ, this con-celebration of heaven and earth, of history and time, brings us closer to each other today through the blessing of the presence, together with all the saints, of the predecessors of our Modesty, namely St. Gregory the Theologian and St. John Chrysostom. [Good reminder.] We are honored to venerate the relics of these two spiritual giants after the solemn restoration of their sacred relics in this holy church two years ago when they were graciously returned to us by the venerable Pope John Paul II. Just as, at that time, during our Thronal Feast, we welcomed and placed their saintly relics on the Patriarchal Throne, chanting "Behold your throne!", so today we gather in their living presence and eternal memory as we celebrate the Liturgy named in honor of St. John Chrysostom.

Thus our worship coincides with the same joyous worship in heaven and throughout history. Indeed, as St. John Chrysostom himself affirms: "Those in heaven and those on earth form a single festival, a shared thanksgiving, one choir" (PG 56.97). Heaven and earth offer one prayer, one feast, one doxology. The Divine Liturgy is at once the heavenly kingdom and our home, "a new heaven and a new earth" (Rev. 21.1), the ground and center where all things find their true meaning. The Liturgy teaches us to broaden our horizon and vision, to speak the language of love and communion, but also to learn that we must be with one another in spite of our differences and even divisions. In its spacious embrace, it includes the whole world, the communion of saints, and all of God’s creation. The entire universe becomes "a cosmic liturgy", to recall the teaching of St. Maximus the Confessor. This kind of Liturgy can never grow old or outdated. [Again, I ask, what must they think about what we are doing in our churches? what we are doing to those who want the traditional forms?]

The only appropriate response to this showering of divine benefits and compassionate mercy is gratitude (eucharistia). Indeed, thanksgiving and glory are the only fitting response of human beings to their Creator. For to Him belong all glory, honor, and worship: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; now and always, and to the ages of ages. Amen.

Truly, particular and wholehearted gratitude fills our hearts toward the loving God, for today, on the festive commemoration of the Apostle founder and protector of this Church, the Divine Liturgy is attended by His Holiness our brother and bishop of the elder Rome, Pope Benedict XVI, together with his honorable entourage. Once again, we gratefully greet this presence as a blessing from God, as an expression of brotherly love and honor toward our Church, and as evidence of our common desire to continue – in a spirit of love and faithfulness to the Gospel Truth and the common tradition of our Fathers – the unwavering journey toward the restoration of full communion among our Churches, which constitutes His divine will and command. May it be so.

This gorgeous homily gives us serious food for thought. You would have to be pretty darn hard of heart not to rethink any cold resistance you might have to anyone who have entirely legitimate aspirations for traditional expressions of the Church’s ongoing grateful worship of Almighty God.

Also, apply what the Patriarch said about your parish and your manner of participation. 


TOPICS: Current Events; Prayer; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: benedict; orthodox; patriarch; pope
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Hit. Nail. Head. You know the "drill." ;-)


1 posted on 12/01/2006 7:48:28 PM PST by Pyro7480
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To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; NYer; Salvation; sandyeggo; american colleen; Desdemona; ...

Catholic ping!


2 posted on 12/01/2006 7:49:25 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: The_Reader_David; Kolokotronis; Agrarian; kawaii; kosta50; FormerLib

I think you'd all appreciate this article. :)


3 posted on 12/01/2006 7:51:22 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480

Were those relics taken from Constantinople by 4th crusade in 1204?


4 posted on 12/01/2006 9:19:27 PM PST by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: ClaireSolt

They were. John Paul II gave them back in 2004.


5 posted on 12/01/2006 9:24:56 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480
Deo gratias: a prayer of thanksgiving for Pope Benedict's safe return
6 posted on 12/01/2006 10:00:29 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: ClaireSolt

Absolutely and they ended up in Rome.However,Pope John Paul II returned those relics on the 27th. November 2004 to Istanbul.


7 posted on 12/01/2006 10:01:14 PM PST by managusta (Light travels faster then sound !This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak)
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To: Pyro7480; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; ..

Thank you for posting Fr. Z's commentary.


8 posted on 12/02/2006 1:54:52 AM PST by NYer (Apart from the cross, there is no other ladder by which we may get to Heaven. St. Rose of Lima)
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To: Pyro7480; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; ..

Thank you for posting Fr. Z's commentary.


9 posted on 12/02/2006 1:55:58 AM PST by NYer (Apart from the cross, there is no other ladder by which we may get to Heaven. St. Rose of Lima)
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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50; Agrarian

I think y'all appreciate reading this. I sure did


10 posted on 12/02/2006 4:00:28 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: Pyro7480

That is a fascinating article. I'm at a loss for words.


11 posted on 12/02/2006 4:29:59 AM PST by FormerLib (Sacrificing our land and our blood cannot buy protection from jihad.-Bishop Artemije of Kosovo)
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To: managusta

I spent a year of my life painstakingly going through the Latin documents of the sack of Constantinople by the 4th crusade, but I missed the reports of the return of these. The reliqaries are definately new, though.


12 posted on 12/02/2006 4:47:33 AM PST by ClaireSolt (Have you have gotten mixed up in a mish-masher?)
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To: bornacatholic; Pyro7480; kosta50; Agrarian
"I think y'all appreciate reading this. I sure did"

The homily or the comments? We posted the homily here on FR a few days back. The comments certainly are directed at you Latin guys. Some are obvious, some seem to be an example of the hearer hearing what he wants to hear. For example:

"They look at the stupid things the Latins have done and are doing to the sacred liturgy, about how those desiring traditional liturgy from lay people to priests, are marginalized and berated. They see the leaders of a group of "traditionalists" are ecommunicated. And they are going to get closer to Rome? Would they hope that their traditions would be respected were they to give greater submission to the authority of Peter which the Pope of Rome exercises?"

I sincerely doubt that the Patriarch was intimating any such thing at all. This simply would never happen with us. We wouldn't allow it, period, end of discussion.

And this:

"[This is amazingly ironic. The Orthodox don’t kneel as much as Latins do, in one sense, as when we enter our churches. No… wait… in a lot of places you never see Latins kneel at all anymore, do you? Especially during Mass?]"

This is because kneeling on Sundays was proscribed by a disciplinary canon of the 1st Ecumenical Council (Canon 20)"On the first day of the week we stand when we pray. The reason is that on the day of Resurrection, by standing at prayer, we remind ourselves of the grace we have received." (St. Basil the Great). Of course we make up for that with full body prostrations during certain prayers in Great Lent.:)

"This kind of Liturgy can never grow old or outdated. [Again, I ask, what must they think about what we are doing in our churches? what we are doing to those who want the traditional forms?]"

The first sentence of the comment is a fair one. I think the Patriarch is reminding the Latin listeners (not the Pope, who knows exactly what the Patriarch is saying)of the Truth of what is going on in the Liturgy as expressed in the sentences immediately preceding this comment. The second sentence is, in my opinion, special pleading. At any rate, this particular line from the EP's homily has to be read in the context of this:

"At the same time, we recognize that the rule of prayer is the rule of faith (lex orandi lex credendi)"

This maxim is fundamental to an understanding of the Orthodox view of Liturgy. Many of you Latins here on FR have seen us Orthodox repeating this time and again. If you want to understand Orthodox theology, look to the way we pray publicly in all our liturgies and devotions. Fr. Z's commentary is absolutely directed to Latins and in a way the EP's isn't. The EP is simply stating a fact about Orthodoxy. It is true that from the pov of an Orthodox observer, the application of the maxim to a Latin Rite Mass does indeed cause confusion. We recognize a closeness of belief and theology through your NO Mass, but not the fullness of The Faith nor the sort of common identity which unity would imply. This isn't to say that that near fullness and identity aren't there. Those of us familiar with the theology behind Latin liturgics know that, but do Latin Catholics in the pews know that? It seems to me that your NO Mass requires extensive theological knowledge to be fully understood. Ours tends to spoon feed us. Now that may be because we are a simple people needing all the help we can get to understand these matters! :) In any event, Fr. Z's comments to Latin Christians likely are fair and important, but I don't think the EP is issuing any concern to the Pope or the Latin world over what you are doing. That simply has to be your business. Its better if we just show what we do and leave it at that.

"Truly, particular and wholehearted gratitude fills our hearts toward the loving God, for today, on the festive commemoration of the Apostle founder and protector of this Church, the Divine Liturgy is attended by His Holiness our brother and bishop of the elder Rome, Pope Benedict XVI, together with his honorable entourage."

Notice what the Patriarch calls the Pope. This comment, and the positioning of the the Patriarch and the Pope to each other, as Kosta pointed out elsewhere, (generally the Pope just ahead of and to the left of the Patriarch) demonstrates the relative positions of the two in The Church as the hierarchs of the 1st and 2nd Sees of Christendom.

While the entire homily is pure Orthodox theology, indeed it is the pure theology of the One, Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church. The commentary is a bit on the "rough side", but its clear that Fr. Z gets it in spades. On another thread, apropos of this Divine Liturgy, I wrote this:

"I am so very happy that everyone had an opportunity to see the Divine Liturgy on EWTN or the web! Here is something to understand about most of us Orthodox. Century upon century our people lived under various tyrannies; many still do. Things were so bad in the old countries that for those of us in West and Australia, our old people had to leave. But through those centuries of oppression and cruelty, every Sunday our people could go to heaven for a few hours. Those of us in the West are so blessed that our old people brought the Divine Liturgy with them when they came here. They knew they had a great treasure which had allowed them to live fully under conditions which made up the nightmares of my childhood. And they preserved it so their children and grandchildren and great grandchildren could have it...every Sunday just like they did. Our Divine Liturgy doesn't simply define a part of our lives, it is our Life!"

In a sense, I think that's what Fr. Z is asking Latins to embrace, that the Liturgy is our Life.
13 posted on 12/02/2006 5:03:59 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Pyro7480; bornacatholic
Thank you Pyro. I also took a double take when I heard the Patriarch say lex orandi lex credendi, which is the central point of the Patriarch's message to our Latin brothers.

The other important point was that which is Divine (and the Liturgy is such) never gets old and out of date. Oooh, that was as direct as it can get in a diplomatic language of the Church.

Lest someone think that this was a snipe at the Latins, I am sure the Patriarch said nothing that he previously did not discuss with the Pope and +Benedict's little wink, smile, and a friendly gesture at the end of the Patriarch's homily indicated that everything went exactly as they had agreed.

Likewise, we need to post the Pope's homily as well for it too contained important messages for both Church communities. All this was agreed upon and designed for analysts to sift out after the fact. For us ordinary viewers, overwhelmed by the history in the making, the homilies were soothing words we all so much wished and anticipated and prayed for.

14 posted on 12/02/2006 7:34:46 AM PST by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Kolokotronis; bornacatholic; Pyro7480; Agrarian
This is because kneeling on Sundays was proscribed by a disciplinary canon of the 1st Ecumenical Council (Canon 20)"

This was not a Sunday, and so many Orthodox (especially in the US, where so many Orthodox churches have pews) do kneel on Sundays! (maybe it's time SCOBA starts asking all those communities to remove them and start worshiping like the Orthodox did since the beginning).

But your comment is spot on because I do not understand how the Latins started to kneel on Sundays if they fully recognize (and therefore abide by) the First Ecumenical Council's decisions. I guess that will be another topic...but again the Orthodox have no leg to stand on as long as they imitate Western Christians in America and are breaking their own obligations with the Councils.

I sincerely doubt that the Patriarch was intimating any such thing at all. This simply would never happen with us. We wouldn't allow it, period, end of discussion

I agree. The message is no different than any other message. We do not proselytize among Christians. If asked, we show how we worship and tell what we believe. There is no attempt to convert, or to diminish the other side.

That being said, I believe that the Pope and the Patriarch agreed on the texts of their homilies and the message they were to convey.

15 posted on 12/02/2006 7:55:52 AM PST by kosta50 (Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; bornacatholic; Pyro7480; Agrarian

I know the Liturgy was not a Sunday Liturgy; that's why I said the canon referred to Sundays. The reason I even mentioned it is that it struck me as odd that Fr. Z commented on it.

"I guess that will be another topic...but again the Orthodox have no leg to stand on as long as they imitate Western Christians in America and are breaking their own obligations with the Councils."

Well, that's certainly true and it is a topic for another time, but I will say that the argument supporting kneeling on Sundays is that the canon is a disciplinary one peculiar to the times it was written, when daily attendance at the Liturgy was common. I don't say I agree with that; indeed I don't, but that is the argument. By they way, I've seen kneeling during the consecration on Sundays in Greece in small villages and large cities so its more widespread than simply America.

By the way, BAC & P, who is this Fr. Z?


16 posted on 12/02/2006 8:24:59 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: Pyro7480

Bump for Fr. Z.!!!!!!


17 posted on 12/02/2006 11:31:53 AM PST by Maeve (Our Lady of Hebei, pray for us.)
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To: Kolokotronis; kosta50; bornacatholic; Agrarian
By the way, BAC & P, who is this Fr. Z?

From his blog: "Fr. Z is Moderator of the Catholic Online Forum and the ASK FATHER Question Box. The WDTPRS columns appear weekly in The Wanderer. Fr. Z lives in Rome, though he is often in the USA. He is available for retreats."

18 posted on 12/02/2006 11:40:49 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Maeve
Our Lady of Hebei, pray for us

I've never heard of this title of Our Lady. After doing a little research, I found out that Hebei is in China. What are the origins of this title?

19 posted on 12/02/2006 11:42:54 AM PST by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
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To: Pyro7480

"From his blog: "Fr. Z is Moderator of the Catholic Online Forum and the ASK FATHER Question Box. The WDTPRS columns appear weekly in The Wanderer. Fr. Z lives in Rome, though he is often in the USA. He is available for retreats."

Ah, I see I should have clicked on the link! :)


20 posted on 12/02/2006 11:53:39 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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