Well, you do not address the distinction I made, but if taken in "my" light, I can agree with what you say here. However, I'm afraid I still do not understand where you are trying to go. Sure, if you take away "hope" (whatever it means) then faith withers. AND, ..... ? :) Is it that people won't go to church? If so, then I don't understand the profundity because WHO WOULD go to church who has no hope?
So, being faithful is very much tied to getting and what's-in-it-for-me, and a lot less about worshiping God just because He is great. Take out the promise and see how many people come to church.
Is this the answer to my above? If so, I could not disagree more. We are God's servants. We serve, He provides. He loves us, we love Him. Maybe our differing view points are directly related to the surety that my side has, and the state of flux that the Apostolics are constantly in. Now that I think of it, I CAN understand how Apostolics would go to church in order to get something. For you all, salvation is based on human performance, which includes going to church and taking the sacraments, etc. So, for an Apostolic, he had better go to church to further his resume for Heaven.
"If" I'm on the right track, then I suppose I had such a difficult time understanding you because this idea is so alien to me. When I go to church the last thing on my mind is earning points toward salvation. The salvation part is already done and over with. All that's left is the living out of the rest of my life. In theory, that should always be in service to God. Part of that is going to church, part of that is prayer, part of that is following the Commandments, etc. When God changed me, He made me WANT to do those things for the first time. So, it isn't "work" (most of the time :).
But you are not taking out the promise. To you faith is not "things hoped for," as the Bible says, but a bank check, sure to be cashed in.
OK, fine. But why would I want to take out the promise? What is the purpose?
No, if the world came to an understanding that there is no salvation no matter what. It would make your faith an oxymoron, since you are saved by faith alone! Take out salvation, then what is faith?! If we have no hope or knowledge of a benefit to us by believing that God will deliver us, prayer and worship become meaningless.
God created humans that seek self-interest. That's how the model is built. To some He gave part of that self-interest in the form of seeking Him for salvation. If we simply erase that part, then there would be no reason to seek God. As I said before, AND .... ?
Our relationship with God is made in expectation, indeed guarantee in your case, that God will rescue you or has rescued you and that you shall live. No one worships God for just being God, FK. People are not that altruistic, even if they can convince themselves otherwise.
Absolutely true. Good summary. :) That's why I'm saying "What are we talking about here"? :)
Indeed, loving God is of necessity "tied to getting what's in it for me," because it is true that "we love [Him] because He first loved us" (1 John 4:19). It does not negate "worshiping God just because He is great," for the supreme act of His greatness is in His sacrificial love for us; we know He is great only because He has revealed all His greatness to us in Jesus Christ the Lamb of God who came to take away the sin of the world (ref. John 1, Rev. 5). Apart from Christ (the Gift) there is not even a connection to God, much less an intimate fellowship, only our fallen rejection of our Creator and Ruler. Without our first "getting" no "worship" would even be possible. I, like Forest, found your argument contradictory in this regard, kosta.