Posted on 12/11/2006 6:29:15 AM PST by xzins
What happened to Joseph the father of Jesus
We know very little about the years of Jesus prior to His public ministry. The gospels are without notation of any childhood events beyond Christ's birth except one reference that is found in Luke. It is the very last time that Joseph, the adoptive father of Jesus, is ever mentioned.
Luke 2:41 reads: "Every year his parents went to Jerusalem for the Feast of the Passover. When he was twelve years old, they went up to the Feast, according to the custom. After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, 'Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.' 'Why were you searching for me?' he asked. 'Didn't you know I had to be in my Father's house?' But they did not understand what he was saying to them. Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men."
It is supposed that Joseph, the father of Jesus, died during the quiet years of Jesus' life. We do know that he trained Jesus in his trade, as that of a carpenter. He do know that Joseph and Mary had children after Jesus was born: James, Joses, Simon, and others.
Perhaps the cause or timing of his death is not nearly as important as the strength of character he displayed. In first hearing about Mary's pregnancy, Joseph did not want to subject Mary to public scorn. After hearing from the angel who confirmed Mary's incredulous story, Joseph obediently accepted the role as surrogate father for the baby Jesus, the Christ child. Matthew 1:24-25 says, "When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus."
The last reference about Joseph in Luke confirms that Joseph was a devout follower of the customs of his religion with his observance of Passover. It implies that Joseph made certain of good spiritual training for the children in his family. Joseph proved his integrity and willingness to be obedient to God's direction and guidance.
Whatever he did at the cross, it wasn't wrong and it wasn't a sin, whether he had living brothers or not. Your theory is wrong and it doesn't prove or even lend any evidence to the question of whether Jesus had siblings.
So you think it is no dishonor to a person to ignore that person?
-A8
So when Mary said "all generations to come shall call me blessed" she was (a) lying; (b) drawing Christians into apostasy; (c) being a badly-behaved package; (d) ????.
The angel sent straight from the Throne of God didn't dehumanize and insult Mary by calling her a "nice package". He said "Hail, highly favored daughter ... you have found favor with God".
As my friend A8 likes to say, pounding the table is not an argument.
See post 119.
-A8
Scripture does not tell me to pray to Mary or anyone else but the risen Christ.
So you think the absence of sin makes someone less human? Were Adam and Eve less than human before the Fall?
Tricky one there, as not being able to consummate the marriage can be used as grounds for annulment in the Roman Catholic Church and in many state laws. In fact, when my bride and I were going through the pre Cana classes with her priest, one of the questions asked of me (and my bride, but separately) was if I had any impediment to consummating the marriage. If I did, the priest said that he would not let us get married. Now that isn't as big of thing when my grandparents got married (both of their previous spouses died, and they remarried in their 70's), but for younger couples it is generally held in the RCC (and the LCMS for that matter) that if the marriage is not or can not be consummated, you have grounds for an annulment.
Such issues is why the concept of a "Josephite marriage" was developed. Although its standing in Cannon and secular law was at times hard to establish, as both parties had to explicitly state that it was the intention from the get go that the marriage was to be of that sort.
Whether or not that is true does not mean that Mary was less human than we are. You seem to be implying (though perhaps I'm misunderstanding you) that sinfulness is a necessary part of being human.
-A8
"And when you pray, say, 'Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name ...'"
Where did I say Mary is less than human?
You seem to be making an argument no one is arguing. Is that because it is difficult for you to support your belief that Mary was more than human?
Mary was blessed by being the human mother of Jesus Christ.
I'm blessed every day by God. I bet you are, too.
The only sinless person to have walked the planet is Jesus Christ.
Not exactly correct.
"Cannot be consummated" is grounds for annulment.
"Has not yet been consummated" permits the church to dissolve the marriage, assuming that the parties civilly divorce first, etc. That's not the same as a finding that a valid marriage never existed in the first place.
She was blessed because she was carried the Christ. Don't rip scripture to "prove" your point.
You wrote: "These threads on Mary are difficult because we Protestants can feel our Catholic FRiends recoiling when we state our belief that Mary was as human as you or me."
That suggests that you think Mary is less human than we are.
Is that because it is difficult for you to support your belief that Mary was more than human?
I don't believe that Mary was "more than human".
-A8
With granddaughters it goes something like this:
Tigger, Tigger, bouncing high,
Through the clouds up in the sky,
Be careful when you come down,
Or you'll hit your bum, hard, on the ground.
They seem to like that one.
The SmileThere is a smile of love,
And there is a smile of deceit,
And there is a smile of smiles
In which these two smiles meet;And there is a frown of hate,
And there is a frown of disdain,
And there is a frown of frowns
Which you strive to forget in vain,For it sticks in the heart's deep core,
And it sticks in the deep back bone,
And no smile that ever was smil'd,
But only one smile aloneThat betwixt the cradle and grave
It only once smil'd can be,
But when it once is smil'd,
There's an end to all misery.
I am not implying it. Scripture states it. After the fall, all men sin. It is their nature.
Mary was in need of a Savior just as much as you or I for the exact same reason.
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