Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Will Pope Benedict become a Mormon after he dies?
Mail & Guardian ^ | 5 Feb 07 | Tom Heneghan

Posted on 02/05/2007 4:05:05 AM PST by xzins

Pope Benedict was baptised at birth and will most likely be baptised again one year after his death, not by his Roman Catholic Church but by a Mormon he never met.

The Mormons, a United States-based denomination officially named the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS), encourage members to baptise the dead by proxy in the belief they are helping the deceased attain full access to heaven.

Church members are told to focus on their ancestors, a rite understandable in a relatively new denomination founded in 1830. But so many now perform the rituals for celebrities, heroes and perfect strangers that the practice has spun out of control.

Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Genghis Khan, Mao Zedong, King Herod, Al Capone and Mickey Mouse have all appeared for a short time in the International Genealogical Index (IGI) for proxy baptisms, said Helen Radkey, an IGI researcher.

"It seems that any kind of name at all may be submitted," said Radkey from Salt Lake City, where the LDS is based. The IGI also accepts names for rites that "seal" spouses in eternal marriage or parents and children in eternal families.

This has outraged Jews and baffled Christians who see it as usurping the memory of their departed relatives. The LDS says it cannot stem the tide of dead baptised in its own temples.

"The only way we could prevent it would be to undertake independent genealogical research on every name that came in, an utterly impossible task with the many tens of thousands of names that are submitted each year," LDS spokesperson Kim Farah said in an e-mail responding to questions from Reuters.

So Benedict looks set to join his predecessor John Paul and a centuries-long list of popes Mormons have baptised -- despite the fact that he, back when he was the Vatican's top doctrinal authority, ruled that Mormon baptisms were not even Christian.

"There is no reason theologically why a former Pope or any other church leader shouldn't be offered the same opportunity given to the rest of mankind," Farah said.

Jews, Catholics, Protestants, Muslims The Catholics are not the only non-Mormons on the church's International Genealogical Index (IGI), a list of those baptised or cleared for the rite in which a Mormon undergoes a full immersion baptism at a temple in the name of the dead person.

Jewish Holocaust victims, Protestant reformers Martin Luther and John Calvin and Mohammed ibn Abdel-Wahhab, founder of Saudi Arabia's stern version of Islam, have all popped up on the list.

A purged version of the IGI is online on a website run by the LDS church, but does not show which rites have been performed.

That data is reserved only for Mormons, who can consult it at one of the 3 400 Family History Centres worldwide where they go to enter names for these rites using special software. The rites are then performed at temples off-limits to non-Mormons.

Radkey, who has exposed non-Mormon entries on the IGI for over a decade, alerted United States Jewish groups last December that the famous Jewish Nazi-hinter Simon Wiesenthal had turned up on the IGI as a departed soul cleared for Mormon baptism.

Rabbi Marvin Heir, head of a Jewish human rights group in Los Angeles named after the deceased Austrian, called this "very offensive. Simon Wiesenthal dedicated his whole life to Jews. I don't think he needs help getting into heaven."

The church pledged in 1995 not to list Holocaust victims and other Jews after many names were found on the IGI. It took Wiesenthal's name off its online list but critics like Radkey say internal lists still have large numbers of Jewish names.

Popes and fictional wives Pope John Paul II was baptised not once but four times in April 2006, in line with Mormon practice of waiting a year before starting these rites. He died on April 2 2005.

His name was purged from the online IGI, so a normal search will not find them. But his four now-anonymous files are still in the database and three still show his parents' names.

Pope Pius XII was baptised three times and also "sealed" in eternal marriage to a fictional Mrs Eugenio Pacelli. Saint Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuit order of priests, was also "sealed" to a bogus wife. Catholic clergy do not marry.

Names are purged from the public IGI after being found and publicised. Pope John Paul I and Pope Paul VI were both baptised and were listed on the online IGI in December but removed after Reuters asked about them, Farah confirmed.

But earlier popes, going back at least to the Crusader Pope Urban II (1088-1099), are mostly still there. "They remove any names that could potentially cause criticism," Radkey said.

Father Thomas Weinandy, head of the Secretariat for Doctrine and Pastoral Practices of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, described proxy baptism as inappropriate.

"We don't know whether the person would want this or not," he told Reuters from Washington. "Catholics and other Christians feel they are already properly baptised. But it's harmless.

"As for the popes, I think most Catholics would find that somewhat inappropriate but also rather humourous. They're already in heaven! So it's redundant, even if it did work."

Baffling notion Mormons believe the early Christians strayed from the true faith and only the LDS church returned to the right path. All those who lived before 1830 were thus unable to join the Church and have full access to all the glory of heaven.

To trace and baptise these people, it has built up the largest genealogical library in the world, the Family History Library at its headquarters in in Salt Lake City, Utah. This includes public lists of names collected around the world.

Clearly sensitive to questions about the practice, the LDS defends it as a central tenet of its faith. It argues the proxy baptism does no harm because the dead can reject it in the next life, a notion baffling to most Christians.

Farah said Mormons were "always deeply saddened to hear" that non-Mormons might be offended to find their ancestors' names had been harvested from public lists and baptised into a faith they did not follow during their lives.

Church rules say deceased who were born in the past 95 years should not be submitted for baptism without permission from their living relatives, but the IGI shows this is often ignored.

Farah said the LDS church has tried to discourage abuse of the system. "We continue to look for ways to improve," she said. - Reuters


TOPICS: General Discusssion
KEYWORDS: afterlife; baptism; bravosierra; catholic; mormon
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 201-202 next last
To: Koblenz; EveningStar
However, if Mormonism is the one true religion, then it's fine that someone baptizes me after death.

Wasn't there a South Park episode where God tells everyone on Judgment Day "Oh, by the way, the Mormons were right all along."

21 posted on 02/05/2007 6:38:05 AM PST by Larry Lucido
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: AnAmericanMother

Family reunions must be fun...

They can baptize me til the cows come home if it'll make them feel better...


22 posted on 02/05/2007 6:38:16 AM PST by Iscool (There will be NO peace on earth, NOR good will toward men UNTIL there is Glory to God in the Highest)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Iscool
"Seems just as legitimate as baptizing days old babies..."

Or circumcising days-old Jewish boys?

23 posted on 02/05/2007 6:38:30 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Iscool
"If through a ritual someone can turn fermented hooch and a cracker into the body and blood of God, and then claim to eat the actual body and blood of God, anything's possible..."

I'd love to see you debate this with that guy in John 6.

24 posted on 02/05/2007 6:41:32 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (Ye also have seen me, and believe not.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: NYer

Since I don't think it has any effect whatsoever, I don't really care one way or the other.

I find the belief interesting, but I don't find it to be biblical.

I find it to be inconsistent with grace through faith.


25 posted on 02/05/2007 6:42:04 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: TheStickman
Pray for the conversion of those who blaspheme against Our Lord Jesus Christ, truly present in the Blessed Sacrament.

More to the point of this article, I'll note that no matter how nutty I might consider their theology, I've never met a Mormon/LDS who was not by his personal demeanor an excellent ambassador for his particular faith.

26 posted on 02/05/2007 6:42:16 AM PST by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Huber

I'm sure the Holy Father will sigh and shake his head over this in the hereafter.


27 posted on 02/05/2007 6:42:36 AM PST by Tax-chick ("It is my life's labor to bring Christ to souls and souls to Christ through word and example.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: xzins
This has outraged Jews and baffled Christians who see it as usurping the memory of their departed relatives. The LDS says it cannot stem the tide of dead baptised in its own temples.

They can STOP DOING IT and prohibit the practice.

28 posted on 02/05/2007 6:44:27 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: xzins
Mormons can "baptize" me when I'm dead. And I can pray for deceased Mormons. Or I could place their names in a book and commend it to the intergalactic Klingon empire. So what?

Wild theories about the afterlife make good copy in Zimbabwe, I guess.

29 posted on 02/05/2007 6:44:55 AM PST by marshmallow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: wagglebee; marshmallow

They believe it is biblical. (1 Corinthians 15)

See marshmallow's #29. He/she has it exactly.

I think it's an interesting comparative religion article.

Theologically, it means that there was absolutely no point in Jesus' sacrifice.


30 posted on 02/05/2007 6:48:18 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: xzins

I wonder if anyone will baptize Saddam?


31 posted on 02/05/2007 6:53:09 AM PST by CholeraJoe (Spork weasels ain't afraid of nuthin' but running out of sardines.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: CholeraJoe

He's not even at 95 days yet, much less 95 years. :>)

I'll bet you'd be hard pressed to find a Mormon who's related to him, though.


32 posted on 02/05/2007 6:57:06 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: xzins

If Muslims can get 72 virgins, why not?

I thought the point of heaven was to get away from your wife? Kidding of course.

Nah, no marriage or being taken in marriage on the other side... as far as I know.

I wonder if they go by obituaries as well? A lot of folks have no religious affiliation. I guess if they were EMTs or ER employees they could baptize before they died... or after.


33 posted on 02/05/2007 6:57:11 AM PST by AliVeritas (Stop Global Dhimming. Demand testicular fortitude from the hill. Call the crusade.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: AliVeritas

I think you have to be related to the person you get baptized for. That's why they do all the geneological research.

That point isn't entirely rational either. Since the Mormons believe in the Noah story, they have to believe that everyone is some level of distant relative.


34 posted on 02/05/2007 6:59:18 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: Iscool
If through a ritual someone can turn fermented hooch and a cracker into the body and blood of God, and then claim to eat the actual body and blood of God, anything's possible...

True.

How about a man rising from the dead?

That's pretty far-fetched too, aint it?

35 posted on 02/05/2007 7:07:41 AM PST by marshmallow
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: TheStickman

Be prepared for 70 times 7


36 posted on 02/05/2007 7:09:30 AM PST by Running On Empty
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: HarleyD

Seriously, though, Harley, what does this say about the necessity of Christ's sacrifice?


37 posted on 02/05/2007 7:13:29 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: xzins

What a nutty religion. The idea that a dead person can be baptized or married is ludicrous. Maybe this is the only way that Mormons can get anyone to join their cult, I mean, church.


38 posted on 02/05/2007 7:14:52 AM PST by steadfastconservative
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TheStickman
I forgive you for your comment about the Holy Eucharist.

Doesn't matter one way or the other to me...

I am filled with the 'real presence' of Jesus Christ 24/7 as are all Christians who have called upon the name of the Lord to save them...We have been adopted into the Family...God is our father...We do not need a cannibalistic sacrifice of our God to remain or continue in the family or to come in contact with the presence of Jesus...

We are there, man...It's all over but the rocket ride...My address is Gold Ave, Heaven...My home is a mansion...

And when God says, 'Come up hither', I'll be lifting off in the twinkling of an eye...

39 posted on 02/05/2007 7:15:10 AM PST by Iscool (There will be NO peace on earth, NOR good will toward men UNTIL there is Glory to God in the Highest)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Iscool
If through a ritual someone can turn fermented hooch and a cracker into the body and blood of God, and then claim to eat the actual body and blood of God, anything's possible...

Are you saying that Are you saying that it would not be possible for God to Transubstantiate Himself in the Eucharist? Or do you believe that Transubstantiation is possible but that Jesus just lied about it in John 6?

40 posted on 02/05/2007 7:17:50 AM PST by wagglebee ("We are ready for the greatest achievements in the history of freedom." -- President Bush, 1/20/05)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 201-202 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson