Posted on 02/26/2007 9:52:40 AM PST by Alex Murphy
MEDIA ADVISORY, Feb. 22 /Christian Newswire/ -- The sequel to a book written by a former Los Angeles-based radio and television talk show host, which challenges the doctrine of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture to Heaven, is now available to the public. Published by Author House, Why Christians Will Suffer Great Tribulation is the sequel to The End Times Passover, written by Joe Ortiz.
"No Christian wants to imagine he or she will be persecuted, but it will happen" stated Ortiz, who spent over 20 years researching and writing his books. Ortiz stated he provides unequivocal Bible evidence that challenges the belief system that Christians will escape to Heaven while unbelievers will be Left Behind to experience Armageddon. "Unfortunately, a large majority of evangelicals do not believe they will go through any tribulation, believing instead that God will provide them an escape through what they call the Rapture."
Ortiz said he realizes his is a minority point of view and that most Christians believe in the books written by authors who promote the Left Behind doctrine (such as John Hagee, Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsey, et al); but he's willing to debate those authors who promote a Premillennial, Dispensational doctrine to determine what is myth or what is true fact.
Ortiz said he wrote the books because he is concerned for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation escape to Heaven. He said his books not only provide Bible evidence to support his contentions, and clearly explain why they will be persecuted, but feels it's his duty to reach out to fellow Christians and alert them to be prepared for the eventuality of great tribulation.
The author is a former award-winning radio/television talk show host and newspaper columnist. A 23 year veteran broadcaster, Joe Ortiz has the distinction of being the first Mexican American to conduct a general topics talk show on an English-language commercial radio station. He began his broadcasting career at KABC-AM in Los Angeles in 1971. He is semi-retired but still writes for local and national periodicals and hosts three blogs.
"Scripture is clear that believers are not appointed unto God's WRATH."
One of the verses that proves your point is Rev.9:4
"And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads."
The "seal of God" is His truth, His word that we have absorbed. That truth keeps us from the deception Satan is throwing at us. It pays us to remember that he is coming after us, believers, Christians - he already has the others. Rev.12:17
"And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to
make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the
commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus
Christ"
That is us, Christians, he is coming to make war with. That war is with a flood of lies and done in a peaceful and prosperous manner. This is one of the verses that shows, not only that he is coming after us, but that we will be here when he does. If we are raptured that would not be possible.
God's wrath is only for those that do not follow Him. He will not hurt those that He loves and that love Him. However, the great deceiver, the anti-christ (which was mistranslated and should be "instead-of-christ")is coming before the true Jesus Christ and he will fool many. That is the "great apostasy" when people who have loved Christ all their lives will change their faith and follow him. How could that be? How could any believer change? Because they are deceived into believing he is Christ and they will think they are worshipping Jesus. Even if that worship is done unknowingly God tells us they "might be damned".
God said, 2Thess.2:10-12
And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them
that perish; because they received not the love of the
truth, that they might be saved. (11)And for this cause
God shall send them strong delusion, that they should
believe a lie; (12) That they all might be damned who
believed not the truth, but had pleasure in
unrighteousness.
God not only allows Satan's lies but sends strong delusion to those of us who have not read His letter with understanding.
I also have an enormous revulsion for such guessing games.
Sorry. sort of.
But lots of other people who might benefit from your insights will not bother either.
Yes - 7th seal, 7th trump and 7th vial and not before that. The great deceiver comes at the 6th vial, 6th trump and 6th seal. As I see you know, that is all that number means. We won't be lining up to be tattooed or a chip put in our heads or hands.
As He said, "I have foretold you all things".
He's at work already with his lies. The worst part is he works best from the pulpit. I have been taught, and believe, that he works from 4 hidden dynasties; finance, education, politics and last, but not least - religion.
The "true" word of God is already hard to hear and getting dimmer by the minute.
God does all things well.
If that's His plan, He will enable me to live with it, thru it or otherwise.
Thanks.
Hadn't quite read exactly that perspective before.
What about the 7 wives with 7 sacks with 7 cats? Oh, wait, that's from Die Hard III.
Oddly, the answer to both riddles is "one".
If that's His plan, He will enable me to live with it, thru it or otherwise.
He will, but it's your responsibility to know his Word, so you will not be deceived. The rapture is an attractive teaching, but it comes from a view of a god with limitations, does it not?
You are correct.
The "true" word of God is already hard to hear and getting dimmer by the minute.
Cutting through a lot of traditions of men does make it difficult to hear sometimes. There's nothing new under the Sun, so I wouldn't say it's any dimmer than it's ever been before.
but it comes from a view of a god with limitations, does it not?
= = =
No.
There is a Scripture about being caught up to meet Christ in the air.
The issue is when.
When doesn't necessarily limit God in any way. Just depends on how He has chosen to arrange it. Neither way limits His power, imho.
This is the heralding sign for calling out the bride to come to the Groom and go to the wedding and feast ... the Bride will not be left to be tormented with those calling for the mountains to fall on them and hide them from the wrath of God. This calling out comes midway in the betrothal period that precedes the actual marriage ceremony ... the bride and Groom are already sealed together in betrothal and following the waiting period (spoken of by Christ Himself with the parable of the virgins and the lamps), the Grooms wedding party comes for the bride and calls out and sometimes there was a trumpet sounded, then the bride and her entourage rush out to be with the Groom and His party and they withdraw to the wedding feast.
Right, but where does it say that that happens before Satan is loosed upon the world or that the Bride of Christ will escape all attempts of persecution?
That's true - His word doesn't get dimmer, there is just so much else being said that can keep one from hearing it.
Fine with me! Maranatha.
Thx.
I have never pretended to have it all figured out much at all.
I do collect puzzle pieces and commentary thereon.
"... but where does it say that that happens before Satan is loosed upon the world or that the Bride of Christ will escape all attempts of persecution?" When you use 'all' it appears you are seeking to get the discussion into extremes ... the first 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation, the Bride will be here being persecuted by Satan's ghouls ... after the Bride Groom calls the Church out, then the wrath of God descends upon those left behind for 3 1/2 years, culminating with the cleansing of the Earth and the millenial Kingdom, THEN Satan and his ghouls will meet their final destiny.
What happy news. Onward Christian soldiers...
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