Christian Zionism

http://raptureready.com/featured/ice/ChristianZionism.html ^ | Undated | Thomas Ice

[Blogger]

In light of recent discussions, a recent history of Christian Zionism and evangelization towards the Jews.

[Blogger]

Ping

[Enosh]

Of course Genesis 12:3 still applies.

[P-Marlowe]

In my entire life thus far I have never met or heard of a liberal who was premillennial.

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[Blogger]

always

[HarleyD]

D. James Kennedy...Stephen... Colin Chapman... Gary DeMar has for many years exhibited his anti-Zionism

Rather than the "anti-Zionism" label we prefer the "pro-Christian" label.

[Blogger]

Why would you see Zionism as anti-Christian? Jesus came to the lost sheep of Israel. YHWH said regarding Israel, I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you. Being pro-Christian and pro-Israel is a marriage made in heaven. Being anti-Israel is, well, frankly, pro-Satan since he's the one who fights her in Revelation 12.

[wmfights]

Being pro-Christian and pro-Israel is a marriage made in heaven.

Aren't we talking about the Israel that is faithful?

Is that the Israel that exists today? I don't think so.

[Blogger]

No. Israel period. The Bible doesn't make the distinction as far as blessing Israel.

Now, does being pro-Israel equate to agreeing with all of Israel's decisions? Not hardly. A lot of Israel's decisions are a curse upon herself. We can not support that. But her right to exist? Yes. Her right to the land that God promised her and she still hasn't inherited in full? Yes. Her peace? Yes. Her salvation? Most definitely. That's pro-Israel to me. It isn't a carte blanche stamp of approval on political/national Israel's decisions.

I love Israel, because God loves Israel. God loves her even when she is unfaithful. God does not approve of all that she does. Our mind should be like the mind of Christ concerning Israel and like the view Paul exhibited towards her in Romans. Recognizing her failures, but also recognizing the faithfulness of God towards her. When we are faithless, He is faithful - for he can not deny himself. His promises are without repentance. They will occur and that large remnant of Israel will one day know their Lord.

[HarleyD]

Why would you see Zionism as anti-Christian?

I don't see things as "anti-Christian". As Augustine writes, there are two cities. There are the Christians and there is everyone else. The Christian city is built on our forefather Abraham and continues through time, now including the Gentiles. For Christians our city is not here of stone; rather we are ambassadors of our heavenly city. We influence the other city in which we dwell simply as representatives of God. Someday we, like Abraham, Moses, Paul and the rest will finally be gathered with our people; a blessed promise indeed!

Whatever takes place in the city in which we dwell is because of God mission to bring His city home to Him. The reformulation of Israel must have been ordained by God simply because it has happened. That doesn't make Israel good or bad, nor can I tell how God is going to use this for His will. If Israel took over the entire Middle East or dissolved entirely tomorrow makes no difference in God's plan to seek and save that which He has lost. It simply means that God has ordained this to happened to help bring His city home.

Being pro-Christian and pro-Israel is a marriage made in heaven. Being anti-Israel is, well, frankly, pro-Satan since he's the one who fights her in Revelation 12.

I have yet to find anyone who has been able to accurately interpret Revelation. I find the Orthodox approach the best. Once a year they pull it off the shelf, read it, say "Hmmmm, very interesting.", and put it back on the shelf until next year.

[Blogger]

Whatever takes place in the city in which we dwell is because of God mission to bring His city home to Him. The reformulation of Israel must have been ordained by God simply because it has happened.
As it was prophesied TO happen in Scripture. Harley. We don't have to guess about Israel. God says what His plan is - and His plan is not limited to the salvation of man. It also includes revealing some things about Himself to the world. Israel's restoration was according to the promises of God as prophesied millenia ago. It is not complete. Scripture tells us all of what will occur, if we will listen to it.

I have yet to find anyone who has been able to accurately interpret Revelation. I find the Orthodox approach the best. Once a year they pull it off the shelf, read it, say "Hmmmm, very interesting.", and put it back on the shelf until next year.
No Harley. You don't know if you have found anyone who has accurately interpreted Revelation. Some of us may have hit the nail right on the head. Ignorring it serves nobody's purpose. It may seem cute, but God put it in the Bible for us to grapple with. And, he has given us His Holy Spirit to teach us what He wants us to know about it.

[wmfights]

No. Israel period. The Bible doesn't make the distinction as far as blessing Israel.

The Bible does tell us to repent and not associate with those that do evil.

[wmfights]

As I understand it, Israel is increasingly becoming a more secular, socialist state. They do have strong religious groups, but they are in the minority.

The demographics are terrible for them and unless they exclude all non Jews in 30-50 years they will be a majority muslim country (one of the reasons they are withdrawing from territories and building a wall). If they become a muslim country, still called Israel, are we supposed to support them?

[HarleyD]

As it was prophesied TO happen in Scripture. Harley.

If dispensationalism was such an obvious and important doctrine, why didn't anybody spot it for 1900 years? Why didn't the early church fathers felt that Israel would be reborn? One would think that if it was so clearly defined in the text, someone would have spotted it within 1900 years. There is more written evidence of disagreement with the Eucharist than with the formation of Israel, and that's saying a lot because there isn't that much.

I remember reading Hal Lindsey's Late Great Planet Earth back in the early 70's. Those who remember that first book will recall how Mr. Lindsey laid out a careful argument on how the great bear was going to sweep from the north to attack Israel. The bear at that time is now the Soviet Union. I thought that was great theology until the Soviet Union broke apart. Over the last several decades Mr. Lindsey modified and changed his interpretations to fit with current events but he lost at least one reader. My point isn't to criticize Mr. Lindsey but to illustrate that it's very easy to read anything, anyone wants in scripture and conform their beliefs based upon their surroundings and not on good theological development.

You don't know if you have found anyone who has accurately interpreted Revelation. Some of us may have hit the nail right on the head.

That may very easily be true. But I sincerely doubt a doctrine stating God sheding out His blessings on a nation (any nation) that is in constant rebellion to Him, hits anything on the head. The biblical Israel for most of its life was in a constant state of rebellion. God destroyed the country and sent them into exile. Later He destroyed the temple. Why would God change now and bless them; the people that reject His Son?

God may use Israel to accomplish His will but that's it. Please keep in mind the Muslims are saying that God is using and blessing them? Personally, I think they have a stronger case. Fact is, however, God raises those nations who He so chooses for His will. What that will is none of us really know and any mapping to scripture is speculation at best.

[HarleyD]

As I understand it, Israel is increasingly becoming a more secular, socialist state. They do have strong religious groups, but they are in the minority.

Absolutely correct. Fundamentalist Christians have a very romantic notion of Israel. The size of Israel is decreasing, not increasing.

[Blogger]

I've been to Israel and know what it is like. Have no illusions that it is some God-seeking Nirvana. Am quite aware that it is a secular state by and large.

[Blogger]

I've been to Israel and know what it is like. Have no illusions that it is some God-seeking Nirvana. Am quite aware that it is a secular state by and large.

[wmfights]

Am quite aware that it is a secular state by and large.

As Christians should we have a great loyalty to religious Jews, or the secular state of Israel? As best I can tell, the state of Israel has not done much to protect Christians, or incorporate them into their state. Christians abandoned to the muslim hoard are feeling the middle east.

[wmfights]

I'm reading this verse in Genesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you;.. and think this can be understood to mean the individuals who keep the covenant with God. That as Christians we should bless those Jews who are keeping their covenant with God, but if this is correct we should be blessing Messianic Jews. They kept the covenant and recognized the Saviour when he came.

[WalterSkinner]

..as a full supporter of Israel and God's purpose for her, I do want to distance myself from "two covenant" teaching which is an attempt to build a bridge to our Jewish friends using the wrong material...

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