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Locked on 04/13/2007 1:17:11 PM PDT by Religion Moderator, reason:
Childish behavior |
Posted on 04/03/2007 2:32:00 AM PDT by NYer
ROME, APRIL 2, 2007 (Zenit.org).- Adolf Hitler's No. 1 enemy was the Vatican's secretary of state, Eugenio Pacelli, future Pope Pius XII, according to documents recently found in Europe.
In an article published last Thursday by La Repubblica, reporter Marco Ansaldo announced that he has a dossier on Pius XII that complements documentation found in the Vatican Archives.
According to the newly discovered documents, Pius XII was considered an enemy of the Third Reich. Memos and letters unearthed at a depot used by the Stasi, the East German secret police, show that Nazi spies within the Vatican were concerned at the Pope's efforts to help displaced Poles and Jews.
One document from the head of Berlin's police force tells Joachim von Ribbentrop, the Third Reich's foreign minister, that the Catholic Church was providing assistance to Jews "both in terms of people and financially."
Russia's motives
In a commentary on the new documents, Sister Margherita Marchione, author and expert on Pius XII, explains the campaign against the Pope was the work of the Soviets.
"Russia's plans were to control Europe after the war. The only outspoken obstacle to Russia's plan in Europe was the Catholic Church," Sister Marchione wrote.
"The first attacks claiming that the Church had endorsed silently the atrocities of the Nazis came from Communist Russia," she explained. "Soon to control Poland, and other vast areas in Eastern Europe, Russia saw the need to break the loyalty to the Pope of Catholic majorities in those countries.
"The plan was a simple one: convince everyone that the Pope supported the hated Nazis during the war and, therefore, neither he nor the Church could be trusted after the war. The destruction of the Church would leave the field wide open for Russian influence and control."
And they were wrong. You'd take the word of the damn Nazi (as well as Tito) over the Vatican. Good luck with that.
Was this the same Pope John XXIII who gave that wonderful benediction in 1959 for Ante Pavelich, the Croatian butcher of the Serbs, who had been able to escape justice through those Vatican ratlines into South America?
Your response is just so typical.
One of the things that drew me to the Catholic Church was all the controversy over Cornwell's book.
It was plain to me as a history graduate and attorney that the attacks on the Church were based in little if any fact, and that the hue and cry was all out of proportion to the truth of the matter.
Therefore, the folks who were attacking the Church with such hysterical persistence must have some other motive. Fear? Hatred? Desire to destroy? And why? What do they fear?
Investigating those questions led me straight to the Church.
Are we going to welcome all those who hold diverse opinions on this important topic?
(I do not have sufficient skill as a "Devil's Advocate" to put the matter to the test.)
(And yes, I'm equating those who accuse the Catholic Church of complicity in the Holocaust with Holocaust deniers.)
What's your source for that "whopper"?
Iran is a theocracy.
bookmark
I haven't seen it myself, either. But among others I've read, Jimmy Akins has a little blurb about it here: Hitler's Pope's Author Gets A Clue. Scroll down to December 19, 2004.
Whether he did or didn’t, it has nothing to do with whether he saved Jews in Istanbul at Pius XII’s request, does it?
When Goering was in prison after the war, the Lutheran chaplain denied him communion because Goering espoused pagan beliefs.
That's from the second FR thread I linked. Those 30 countries are not all theocracies. Most of the Holocaust Deniers I've bumped into over the years have been socialists and racists, and not particularly religious at all. Holocaust denial obviously has a religious component, but it's primarily a matter of secular "debate".
Point taken. Atheists and agnostics use a broad brush to tar all beliefs and therefore cannot be considered unbiased either.
Can we expect you to support postings of "reasoned debate" from these holocaust deniers who, after all, are not living in a theocracy?
Which begs the question -- will you, or will you not, allow postings from holocaust deniers? And what's the difference between allowing obviously false and disproved slander from holocaust deniers, and allowing obviously false and disproved slander against Pope Pius?
Was he also denied a Lutheran burial because of his suicide?
My attempt to find a path to peace on this subject, to find at least a minimum set of facts which can be accepted without dispute, has fallen flat because as ArrogantBustard has shown - atheists and agnostics (the dominate force of the secular arguments) - are themselves biased.
So the dispute over Pius XII will continue - and I will limit my attempts to blocking sidebars which "make it personal."
Simple.
The one that harms the Catholic Church is permitted.
Pssst. If those postings harm the reputation of the Catholic Church, the light is green.
I have not yet seen a serious scholarly work accusing Pius XII of leaving the Jews to their fate in WWII. In fact, reputable historians (including several faithful Jews who set out to examine the facts) agree that he saved more people than any other person or organization (including Oskar Schindler and the Red Cross).
You are allowing people to repeat the same slanders from Hochhuth, Cornwell, and Chick just recirculating over and over through Emails and the blogs. It really is a kissin' cousin of holocaust denial . . . shifting the blame from the Nazis to an innocent man.
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