Posted on 05/25/2007 12:48:02 PM PDT by NYer
I did, before posting my suggestion that you take the 'challenge'. So let's begin with 'dogma'. What is Catholic dogma?
In Catholic teaching, a doctrine infallibly taught by the Pope.
The truth must come from Christ’s public revelation through either of two sources:
» Sacred Scripture» Sacred Tradition
The revelation can be:
» Explicit, such as Christ’s incarnate life, death and resurrection.
» Implicit, such as the Blessed Virgin’s Assumption into heaven.
A Catholic dogma may be presented to the faithful in either of two ways.
» Solemnly, in an ex cathedra announcement, such as the definition of the Immaculate Conception.
» Ordinarily, in the perennial exercise of the Church’s Magisterium, such as the constant teaching on the malice of taking innocent human life.
A dogma is a smaller subset of Catholic teaching than a doctrine. All dogmas are doctrines, but only some doctrines are dogmas.
CCC 88 “The Church’s Magisterium exercises the authority it holds from Christ to the fullest extent when it defines dogmas, that is, when it proposes, in a form obliging the Christian people to an irrevocable adherence of faith, truths contained in divine Revelation or also when it proposes, in a definitive way, truths having a necessary connection with these.”
CCC 89 “There is an organic connection between our spiritual life and the dogmas. Dogmas are lights along the path of faith; they illuminate it and make it secure. Conversely, if our life is upright, our intellect and heart will be open to welcome the light shed by the dogmas of faith.”
The acceptance of Catholic dogma is necessary for salvation of the faithful.
From the Greek and Latin dogma, declaration or decree.
The doctrines regarding Mary
Well, the Catholic doctrines surrounding Mary are an issue for you. Let's take a closer look.
The belief that Mary's body was assumed into heaven is one of the oldest traditions of the Catholic Church. Pope Pius XII declared this belief Catholic dogma in 1950. The feast of the Assumption is celebrated on August 15.
The Church teaches that the Immaculate Virgin, by a special privilege, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory at the end of her earthly life
The dogma of the Assumption affirms that Mary's body was glorified after her death. In fact, while for other human beings the resurrection of the body will take place at the end of the world, for Mary the glorification of her body was anticipated by a special privilege.
On 1 November 1950, in defining the dogma of the Assumption, Pius XII avoided using the term "resurrection" and did not take a position on the question of the Blessed Virgin's death as a truth of faith. The Bull Munificentissimus Deus limits itself to affirming the elevation of Mary's body to heavenly glory, declaring this truth a "divinely revealed dogma".
Belief in the glorious destiny of the body and soul of the Lord's Mother after her death spread very rapidly from East to West, and has been widespread since the 14th century. In our century, on the eve of the definition of the dogma it was a truth almost universally accepted and professed by the Christian community in every corner of the world.
3. Therefore in May 1946, with the Encyclical Deiparae Virginis Mariae, Pius XII called for a broad consultation, inquiring among the Bishops and, through them, among the clergy and the People of God as to the possibility and opportuneness of defining the bodily assumption of Mary as a dogma of faith. The result was extremely positive: only six answers out of 1,181 showed any reservations about the revealed character of this truth.
Citing this fact, the Bull Munificentissimus Deus states: "From the universal agreement of the Church's ordinary Magisterium we have a certain and firm proof demonstrating that the Blessed Virgin Mary's bodily Assumption into heaven ... is a truth revealed by God and therefore should be firmly and faithfully believed by all the children of the Church" (Apostolic Constitution Munificentissimus Deus: AAS 42 [1950], 757).
The definition of the dogma, in conformity with the universal faith of the People of God, definitively excludes every doubt and calls for the express assent of all Christians.
After stressing the Church's actual belief in the Assumption, the Bull recalls the scriptural basis for this truth.
Although the New Testament does not explicitly affirm Mary's Assumption, it offers a basis for it because it strongly emphasized the Blessed Virgin's perfect union with Jesus' destiny. This union, which is manifested, from the time of the Saviour's miraculous conception, in the Mother's participation in her Son's mission and especially in her association with his redemptive sacrifice, cannot fail to require a continuation after death. Perfectly united with the life and saving work of Jesus, Mary shares his heavenly destiny in body and soul.
Assumption is fruit of Mary's sharing in the Cross
4. The Bull Munificentissimus Deus cited above refers to the participation of the woman of the Proto-gospel in the struggle against the serpent, recognizing Mary as the New Eve, and presents the Assumption as a consequence of Mary's union with Christ's saving work. In this regard it says: "Consequently, just as the glorious Resurrection of Christ was an essential part and the final sign of this victory, so that struggle which was common to the Blessed Virgin and her divine Son should be brought to a close by the glorification of her virginal body" (Apostolic Constitution Munificentissimus Deus: AAS 42 [1950], 768).
The Assumption is therefore the culmination of the struggle which involved Mary's generous love in the redemption of humanity and is the fruit of her unique sharing in the victory of the Cross.
Please! Go ahead and pose a challenge to this Catholic dogma. Have the bones of the Virgin Mary ever been found? Surely even the earliest christians would have gone to great lengths to preserve her grave ... but where is it? And what about God who asked this young virgin to be His mother? Where do you disagree with this particular dogma? And, what is your evidence?
If the first premise is rejected, then obviously, I can't accept the rest of what you have said. You assume a lot with the first statement, and since it is based on tradition, and not on Scripture, the rest is a non sequitor
Is the identity of the texts that, collectively, add up to the body of writings we call Scripture based on tradition, or on Scripture?
In other words, what passage of Scripture tells us the content, or even the names, of the books that make up what is called 'Scripture'?
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All I had to do was prove one doctrine false and the entire system would cease to be without error.
Every time I see a bathtub planted in some Catholic's front yard with a statue of a woman standing inside of it, I'm reminded that there's another person who throws his religion in God's face...
“Every time I see a bathtub planted in some Catholic’s front yard with a statue of a woman standing inside of it, I’m reminded that there’s another person who throws his religion in God’s face...”
~and you have no idea what that sentence says about your belief system?
More’s the pity.
I know exactly what it says about my belief system...And God's...He says do not put statues of things inside bath tubs in your front yard...
ÃŒ can’t say that I’m surprised to see a Foursquarer try Catholicism next; Pentecostals have a long tradition of looking for the next new thing under the sun when their latest preoccupation loses its fascination.
As for Catholicism itself, I myself was one until they started taking up collections to build mosques.
WOW!! Pretty cowardly!!! Take NYer up on her challenge....you seem so sure...it would be very interesting to other Freepers.....Please go ahead and find one false doctrine.
Innocent question: Do you believe that Jesus was born of Mary and is the Son of God and Mary’s son?
That’s right. Also the cleansing of the priest’s hands prior to the offertory says “Wash away my iniquity, cleanse me from my sin” from the 51st Psalm. I’m sure there are other short exaltations such as “Blessed be God Forever” as we respond to the priests start of concentration of the wine and bread. It is taken from the Old Testament praying of the Jews.
Said much better than I. God Bless you.
Frank
I am not being cowardly, I am being practical. I think there are better ways of using our time than butting our heads together!
It is useless, in my estimation for me to attack the Roman Catholic positions...particularly on Mary. I think the RC teaching on Mary borders on idolatry. And since the RC holds Tradition above the Scriptures (think very carefully before you disagree), and I am an advocate of sola scriptura, there is no way we will be able to come to an agreement.
So I comment, and walk on.
Grace and peace to you and yours this Memorial Day weekend
Litekeeper
Chaplain, US Army, retired
A dogma of my (imaginary) Church is that Mary Magdalene was appointed by Jesus as the Apostle to the Apostles. Prove it wrong.
That’s certainly a new spin on the same old....
I've been around here long enough to know that you folks don't ask innocent questions, as such...So let me guess...You want to know if I believe that Jesus is God...And if Mary is the mother of God...Of course Mary is not the mother of God...God has no mother...
The point is, God says not to build statues...You guys do...Whos is wrong, you or God???
Catholics are TOTALLY based on Scripture. It is unbelievable that if you are so Bible based, then why don't you do the main thing that Jesus told you to do.... "This is My Body..."Take My Body and Eat It....Take My Blood and drink It"??? Why do Protestants just blow that off like it's not in the Bible, yet they accuse us of not being Bible based?
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