Leaving the Catholic Church, A Letter of Resignation

Lazyboy's Rest Stop ^ | Robert Mayberry

[Ethan Clive Osgoode]

It sounds to me like you're saying the sacraments are not necessary for salvation.

God offers gifts to us, why turn away from these gifts? God offers himself in the form of bread and wine - that's a pretty big gift - why not avail ourselves of it? God offers us many gifts. To some he offers a grace to pray: prayer requires a special gift from God. To others he may offer the grace to live as a missionary in some far-off place. To some he may even offer the grace to bear martyrdom. We often refuse God's gifts, but this is not wise. Can we refuse such gifts and still be saved? I don't know, but the gifts are there, God offers them, why turn our backs to them?

You may not think that all these things are gifts from God, though a Catholic would think so. Fair enough, can I understand that. But I am sure you would agree that it is unwise to turn one's back on the things that God offers us. In this at least we can agree.

[GoLightly]

It is amazing how Protestants ignore or excuse robbery and murder as long as it was against the Catholics.

I can't ignore or excuse the robbery and murder against the Catholic Church. It was one of the innovative "traditions" that *should* have been rejected, but wasn't.

[Suzy Quzy]

Amen.

[Suzy Quzy]

NO CATHOLIC puts Mary ahead of Jesus.....that is an IGNORANT statement.

[editor-surveyor]

"Given the events recorded in the infancy narratives in Matthew amd Luke. his mother must have had a clue. Or don’t you believe these are true?"

First remember that the gospels were written after the Lord has ascended. The writers would have had great difficulty severing the the level of understanding that they had themselves achieved from their stumbling confusion at the start of his adult ministery.

There is some evidence that Mary's sister Elizabeth had some understanding of what was taking place, but I see little evidence that Mary or Joseph understood more than that the child that they were raising was to be a King of the House of David. If you will remember, at one point the Lord came to despair at her lack of understanding during his adolescence, saying "what am I to do with thee woman?"

[Dr. Eckleburg]

"THE CULT OF THE VIRGIN MARY:
PSYCHOLOGICAL ORIGINS"
by Michael P. Carroll

Well worth the price of a used copy on Amazon.

[RobbyS]

“Some evidence?” I guess if one is determined to minimize the role of the Virgin, in fact make her virginity a mere sign, one must ignore the words of St. Elizabeth (Lk 1, 39-45) Mary (Lk, 46-55). Or do you think that Luke has put words into their mouths? Protestants are turned off by some of the excesses of Marian devotion. I have turned off by the disdain in which they hold the memory of the mother of our Lord.

[editor-surveyor]

I have no problem with the virgin birth, that’s quite scriptural. It’s the rest of the pagan substitution for Semiramis that is so depressing to observe in people that profess belief in my Lord.

[RobbyS]

If you think that Mary was introduced as a substitute for “ the goddess,” or others in the 4th Century, then I suspect you are not familiar with the history of the period from 325 to 450 when the Church was wrestling with the doctrine of the Trinity. Harnack had it that Trinitarians both elevated Jesus to equality with the Father and Mary to the position occupied by the Arian Christ. I don’t agree with this, but the notion of Theotokos certainly came out of the theological controversies of the period. The term is translated by Jerome as Mater Dei, but it does not mean exactly that. It means that Mary was—as the Bible says—the Mother of the Lord Jesus, and the bearer of the Incarnate Word. As a Jewish woman, she is also the means by which Israel has accomplished its mission, which is to bring light to the nations.

[Palladin]

I love “The Journey Home.” It’s my favorite program on EWTN!

[wmfights]

I believe that lineage can be traced on a human side (laying on of hands)...

While some sects can trace a long lineage Scripture is clear that the Apostles did not act as Bishops, but were missionaries. Also, we do not have examples in Scripture of Apostles directly appointing the next generation of church leaders. Furthermore, even the oldest sects have gaps in their lineage.

I don't believe the laying on of hands conveys special power to the recipient, do you?

and on a spiritual side (identification with the correct doctrine and practices of our Lord.)

Amen Brother. I don't think we have to be in one institution to be united in Christ.

BTW, sorry forgot which church you're a Pastor in.

[pjr12345]

The term is translated by Jerome as Mater Dei, but it does not mean exactly that.

So are you saying that a linguist as impressive as Jerome mistranslated the term?

It seems more realistic that he translated the phrase to mean EXACTLY what it does mean. It's the inconvenience of easily accessible Scriptures, and an astoundingly more literate populace that provide a more probable explanation for the RCC's need to "adapt" the meaning of this term.

[wmfights]

"THE CULT OF THE VIRGIN MARY: PSYCHOLOGICAL ORIGINS" by Michael P. Carroll

What a great read. Eye opening!

[GinaLolaB]

I love “The Journey Home.” It’s my favorite program on EWTN!

I LOVE THE JOURNEY HOME ON EWTN TOO! Marcus Grodi Rocks! Catholics Rule!

Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with you, blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen

[GinaLolaB]

HAIL MARY, FULL OF GRACE, THE LORD IS WITH THEE,

BLESSED ART THOU AMONGST WOMEN AND BLEST IS THE FRUIT OF THY WOMB, JESUS.

HOLY MARY, MOTHER OF GOD, PRAY FOR US SINNERS, NOW AND AT THE HOUR OF OUR DEATH. AMEN

[pjr12345]

GinaLolaB said: Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with you, blessed are you among women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen

RobbyS said: The term is translated by Jerome as Mater Dei, but it does not mean exactly that.

I believe the point I made in Post #532 is accented quite nicely by GLB.

[GinaLolaB]

Almost, every word in the Hail Mary Prayer is scriptural. The first sentence includes the words that the Angel Gabriel spoke to Mary (Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee) and the second sentence is the words that Elizabeth spoke to Mary when she visited her (Blessed art thou among women and blest is the fruit of thy womb, [Jesus]). The last sentence is a simple prayer asking Mary to pray for us. (Pray for us sinners now and at the hour of death). I ask people to pray for me all of the time.

Even if you do not like Mary, you should respect her for being the Mother of the Lord Jesus.

[pjr12345]

Almost, every word in the Hail Mary Prayer is scriptural.

Please cite your Scriptural support for holy mary, mother of god, pray for us sinners.

[RobbyS]

Let me quote the late Jaroslav Pelikan, a Lutheran turned Oxthodox:

Throughout history, and especially during the 4th and 5th centuries, the basic category for thinking about Mary was that of paradox: Virgin and Mother; Human Mother of One who is God, Theotokos. For the most comprehensive--and in the opinion of many the most problematic--of all the terms invented for Mary was...Theotokos. It did not mean simply "mother of God," as it was usually rendered in Western languages (Mater Dei,and then in the Romance languages, or Mutter Gottes in German) but more precisely and fully "the one who gave birth to the one who is God" Therefore Bogorodica in Russia and its cognates in the other Slavic languages, and more seldom and more precisely. Deipara even in Latin).... It seems to have been a word of Christian coinage, not as some would have it, an adaption...of a name originally given to a pagan goddess. (Mary through the Ages, p. 55)

He goes on to quote John of Damascus as summarizing the Orthodox case for this title. Hence it is with justice and truth that we call holy Mary Theotokos. For this name embraces the whole mystery of the divine dispensation. For if she who bore him is the Theotokos, assuredly he who was born of her is God and likewise man...The name in truth signifies the one subsistence and the two natures and the two modes of generation of Our Lord Jesus Christ.( ibid, p.57.)

In other words, the title is really about who Jesus Christ is.

[GinaLolaB]

Please cite your Scriptural support for Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners.

Mary is the Mother of Jesus, Jesus is Son of God,(He is God)therefore, Mary is the Mother of God. The scriptural reference is where Mary gave birth (became His Mother) to the Son of God in Bethlehem.