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Return of Latin mass sparks old vestment hunt
Reuters ^ | July 24, 2007 | Philip Pullella

Posted on 07/25/2007 5:52:12 AM PDT by NYer

ROME (Reuters) - A decree this month by Pope Benedict allowing wider use of the old Latin mass has spawned a veritable cottage industry in helping Roman Catholic priests learn how to celebrate the centuries-old rite.

A Web site, helpline, DVDs and a training course at Oxford are among resources springing up for priests who want to celebrate the old-style mass but aren't sure which vestments to wear or where to get them, when to genuflect, how deep to bow, or how to clasp their hands in prayer.

"There will be priests who will say: 'Oh my God, I want to celebrate the old rite but I'm not sure of one or two things'," said Pietro Siffi, a 37-old Italian devotee of the old Latin rite who plans to offer free online and phone support.

"We will help them find the answer."

Before the Second Vatican Council (1962-1965), Catholic mass was an elaborate ritual led in Latin by a priest who faced east with the rest of the congregation, meaning they faced his back.

Vatican II reduced the formality and had the priest face the faithful to pray in their local language.

The old rite also includes hair-splitting specifics on which vestments can be used, what material they must be made of, where the candles should be placed on the altar, and the precise position of the priest's hands at various points in the liturgy.

The Latin Mass Society of England and Wales (LMSEW) is planning a three-day "major training conference" at Merton College at Oxford University in late August: "There has been an explosion of interest," its general manager John Medlin said.

"The aim is to give a firmly grounded taster in how to celebrate the traditional mass and the background information you need to do it with knowledge and devotion," he said by phone.

NOT LIKE THAT

For those unable to travel, the Society of Saint Pius X, the traditionalist group whose leaders excommunicated themselves from the church after they disobeyed the late Pope John Paul II, has a self-teach option.

It has produced a slick DVD in eight languages showing a priest celebrating the old rite with a running commentary on everything including the precise position -- down to centimeters -- of the priest's hands, altar cloths, chalices and candles.

It tells the priests the exact order in which to don the several layers of vestments. An X for "no" suddenly appears on the screen when the priest makes a false move.

And Siffi plans to expand his Web site, www.tridentinum.com, to help priests find the right equipment. He may also offer courses, which will be charged at cost. "I'm not in this to make money," he said. "This is a labor of love."

Indeed, Siffi recently took on the task of updating the so-called "Trimelloni Guide," an 850-page compendium of liturgical rules and regulations governing all aspects of the old rite.

'SUPERNATURAL IS ALIVE'

Medlin, Soffi and others say there is today a growing interest in the old rite from young people disaffected with a superficial, consumerist world and looking for something sacred.

After the old rite was phased out to be replaced in some churches by sing-along hymns and guitar music, many people missed the Latin rite's sense of mystery and awe and the centuries-old Gregorian chant that went with it.

"It's because young people no longer buy the claim that the supernatural is dead. They have discovered the opposite is true, that the supernatural is alive and the existential was a mere time-bound way of looking at the world that was in its heyday in the 1960s and is now well past its 'sell by' date," Medlin said.

Those who favor the old rite Latin mass realize they will always be a minority in the church, but they are content that now there is a choice for young and old.

"We must understand that most people are happy with the new rite and it's not for us to make them feel like second-class citizens in the way that we were made to feel for so many years," Medlin said.

BURSE, MANIPLE, BIRETTA

But finding equipment remains a challenge. Some is so specific to the traditional rite it is out of production.

Both Siffi and Medlin are involved in de facto traditionalist "matchmaking", linking people who have old vestments or other paraphernalia with those seeking them.

After the changes in the 1960s and 1970s much of the material was thrown out, sold to antiquarians or stashed away in dusty cupboards of rectories or church attics.

"Gradually, these objects are being made available for use again," said Medlin.

One hard-to-find item is the "burse": a stiff, cardboard pocket between nine and twelve inches square. It must be covered in silk and of a color to match the mass vestments.

The burse, which fell out of use after the Second Vatican Council, is effectively a pouch which holds the "corporal", a square piece of white linen cloth on which the chalice is placed during the mass.

Another piece of paraphernalia now being sought is the "maniple", a napkin-like vestment which hangs from the priest's left forearm during mass.

The black biretta, a square cap worn by the priest celebrating the old rite as he approaches the altar before mass and on leaving at the end, also fell into disuse.

If the problem is not so much the equipment as the language, the Latin Mass Society of England and Wales also publishes a "teach yourself Latin" course based on Church Latin used in the traditional rite.

"You don't need to be able to converse about the weather in Latin in order to be able to say the Latin mass," Medlin said.


TOPICS: Catholic; Current Events; History; Worship
KEYWORDS: orthodoxy; traditions; tridentine; uniforms; vestments
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1 posted on 07/25/2007 5:52:14 AM PDT by NYer
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To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

Mother is always right! Hold onto something long enough and it is bound to come back into fashion.


2 posted on 07/25/2007 5:53:03 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer

If you had a large supply of materials, you could sell them on Ebay. You could become rich. People would ask, “How did you earn your fortune?” and you could reply, “In vestments.”


3 posted on 07/25/2007 6:00:38 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Progressives like to keep doing the things that didn't work in the past.)
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To: NYer
The Latin Mass Society of England and Wales (LMSEW) is planning a three-day "major training conference" at Merton College at Oxford University in late August: "There has been an explosion of interest," its general manager John Medlin said.

That's a change from the "nobody is interested" message that is currently popular on FR. Maybe America has Latin-o-phobia whereas the Europeans are linguistically and culturally more flexible and sophisticated.

4 posted on 07/25/2007 6:06:17 AM PDT by marshmallow
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To: NYer

Impossible...nobody’s interested. Priests don’t know how to celebrate the Mass and the laity don’t want it. Isn’t that what the line has been for the last two weeks? I think a lot of our Catholic elites are in for a surprise. May God Bless our Holy Father!


5 posted on 07/25/2007 6:30:28 AM PDT by pgkdan (Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions - G.K. Chesterton)
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Comment #6 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer

LOL!!!!!

YouTube

Traditional Latin Catholic Mass

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6AOvStZS64


7 posted on 07/25/2007 9:21:19 AM PDT by SaltyJoe ("Social Justice" for the Unborn Child)
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To: NYer

Quote from the article:

“There has been an explosion of interest,” (in the Latin Mass)

I told people this would happen. They didn’t believe me.


8 posted on 07/25/2007 9:38:23 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: NYer

“It’s because young people no longer buy the claim that the supernatural is dead. They have discovered the opposite is true, that the supernatural is alive and the existential was a mere time-bound way of looking at the world that was in its heyday in the 1960s and is now well past its ‘sell by’ date,” Medlin said.
This is why I don’t worry about a flood of “retiring” Bishops in America. Perhaps I’m different, but have found others too, who have an sudden interest in the ancient of my historical roots. Certain films like Gladiator and the Rome series on HBO have sparked a wonder for why St Peter had so much success in changing the world through this “civilization”, as brutish as it was.

I think the solutions of the past hold the Mystery of Mercy for the future. Perhaps that’s our Pope has made a great invitation to souls in Asia and particularly China sheds light on amazing possibilities. From the blood of martyrs springs the seeds of Faith. What other culture has suffered so greatly that would be in more dire need of Mercy and veneration for ancestors? Who else can teach the world better than Catholic Chinese who’d show us forgiveness (especially for the older generations) and veneration of ancestors. Thus, the gates of hell will not prevail upon the souls in purgatory. I’m Hopeful that Asian souls will show the world how, with the Blood of Christ, to win the dead back from satan.

To download the video (hosted by Bishop Fulton Sheen, no less):

http://downthisvideo.com/


9 posted on 07/25/2007 9:50:21 AM PDT by SaltyJoe ("Social Justice" for the Unborn Child)
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To: NYer

“...old rite also includes specifics on which vestments can be used, what material they must be made of, where the candles should be placed on the altar, and the precise position of the priest’s hands at various points in the liturgy.”

Hey, so does the Novus Ordo!


10 posted on 07/25/2007 2:33:37 PM PDT by baa39 (Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us. Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.)
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To: marshmallow

Actually, I’m in Spain right now and I have seen much less interest in the TLM here than in the US. Their NO never got as bad as ours, nor was the original translation as bad or inaccurate as ours. Also, the Church in Spain is going head to head with the Zapatero government over a proposed program to impose a mandatory school “Citizenship Education” (you know, the glories of gay “marriage,” abortion, sex at the age of 10, the wonder of Islam, etc.), so maybe there’s no time left over to worry about the liturgy.

Interestingly, the most attention the MP has attracted so far seems to be from non-religious people hoping it will restore an interest in Latin.


11 posted on 07/25/2007 2:58:42 PM PDT by livius
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To: NYer
meaning they faced his back.
12 posted on 07/25/2007 3:25:26 PM PDT by ichabod1 ("Liberals read Karl Marx. Conservatives UNDERSTAND Karl Marx." Ronald Reagan)
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To: ClearCase_guy

We have some congregation-made vestments at my parish. They are gorgeous — and none of the primary color “modern” garbage either. They’re classic. And our pastor already wears the bireta.


13 posted on 07/25/2007 3:30:31 PM PDT by ichabod1 ("Liberals read Karl Marx. Conservatives UNDERSTAND Karl Marx." Ronald Reagan)
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To: ichabod1
We have some congregation-made vestments at my parish.

Awesome! These are always the finest because they were made with love by those who cherish their pastor and appreciate his gift of self to them.

Oftentimes, you will find this to be true in the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches where the selection of pre-made garments is quite limited and the quality, inferior. God bless those women who know how to sew :-)!

14 posted on 07/25/2007 5:33:10 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer

“Mother is always right! Hold onto something long enough and it is bound to come back into fashion”

Sure, the 60s Revolution against America and the Church is coming back.


15 posted on 07/25/2007 7:13:02 PM PDT by LastCrusade (Vatican II Shipwreck http://www.novusordowatch.com/)
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To: NYer

http://www.usedchurchitems.com

they have an abundance of used church items including
traditional vestments.


16 posted on 07/26/2007 5:00:56 AM PDT by JustMytwocents70
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To: NYer

I’m reminded of a story, which I think took place in Houston within the last few years, where a dry cleaner burned down and the only thing left standing in the ruins was a single rack containing a single vestment, from the Maronite church nearby, if I recall correctly.


17 posted on 07/26/2007 7:33:37 AM PDT by ichabod1 ("Liberals read Karl Marx. Conservatives UNDERSTAND Karl Marx." Ronald Reagan)
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To: ichabod1

Are you serious?! I would love to have a link to that story :-)


18 posted on 07/26/2007 8:42:25 AM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: Pyro7480; monkapotamus; ELS; Theophane; indult; St. Johann Tetzel; B Knotts; livius; k omalley; ...

Tridentine Ping List!

Summorum Pontificum Database Link from the Jimmy Akin Blog

Freepmail Frank Sheed if you want  ON/OFF  this list!

To find posts to this Ping List, just search Keyword: "Tridentine"


19 posted on 07/26/2007 8:45:11 AM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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To: NYer

Hey, this is off topic I know but I need some help. I need to send a priest some videos of liturgical abuses. The only two I can find on youtube so far are the clown mass and the barney mass. Any suggestions or links?


20 posted on 07/26/2007 12:30:47 PM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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