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Holy water barred from Vatican flights
Expatica ^ | Aug 29, 2007

Posted on 08/29/2007 8:04:23 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

ROME, Aug 29, 2007 (AFP) - Pilgrims on the Vatican's fledgling airline were stunned to discover that holy water from Lourdes, in southwest France, cannot be taken on board for security reasons, media reports said Wednesday.

French security officers seized the liquid -- reputed to have miracle-giving qualities -- under a Europe-wide anti-terrorism rule that forbids more than 100 millilitres (3.5 British ounces) in each passenger's carry-on baggage.

One pilgrim was so distraught that he drank the holy water on the spot, rather than surrender it to the authorities, Italy's Il Corriere della Sera newspaper reported.

Holy water from Lourdes has a price. One French website, lourdes-water.com, offers a one-litre (35 British ounce) plastic bottle for 100 euros (135 dollars).

Lourdes, a major European centre for Christian pilgrimage, is the first destination for the new air service created under a five-year deal between Mistral Air and the Vatican's pilgrimage bureau.

Service is to be expanded in 2008 to other places sacred to Roman Catholics, including Fatima in Portugal, Santiago di Compostella in Spain and the Sanctuary of the Virgin of Guadalupe in Mexico.


TOPICS: Catholic; Religion & Culture; Theology; Worship
KEYWORDS: searchbeforeposting; two
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To: lupie
"Ok, if that is what you say, then why did you say that I was wrong in post 11 when I said the same thing. Strange logic you have."

There is no strange logic at all. I highlighted the word God in my post to differentiate between the supposed agents of any miracle. Your italicization of my quote obliterates the italics I myself used for the word "God." I ascribe any miracle coming from the use of the water to God, while you ascribe any claim of a miracle to the water itself. We Catholics do not make the mistake of supposing that the water would be anything more than an instrument in conveying God's miraculous favor, just as the mud that Jesus used to give sight to the blind was just His instrument in that circumstance.

21 posted on 08/29/2007 12:33:53 PM PDT by magisterium
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To: lupie

I believe that it is water that was blessed by a priest (I’m sure you know how we think of priests) asking that those who use it be blessed. Sacramenatals, and we have a lot of them, remind us of the Sacraments and our relationship with Holy Trinity. When I make the Sign of the Cross, I am blessing myself, I am making God’s Grace present to myself and I am worshipping Him by using the gifts that He gave us.

I personally use Holy Water to bless our fields and our house. I am imploring God’s help through the use of a physical reminder and presence of God’s Grace.

Expecting to be healed of something by using Holy Water isn’t acceptable to me but God choosing the Holy Water to heal is a glorious occurence. God works throughout creation and uses who and what He will to further His Kingdom, if it is God’s Will it will be done with or without the use of sacramentals.

IOW, sacramentals remind us of God’s Grace and make His Grace present to us in a real way.

The sacraments, OTOH, are true encounters with Jesus, they also impart Grace but in the most intimate encounters with Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.


22 posted on 08/29/2007 12:36:49 PM PDT by tiki
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To: Alex Murphy

Can we swing incense instead? :-)


23 posted on 08/29/2007 12:40:00 PM PDT by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: lupie
"btw - if the law was that they had to throw away a picture of my mother (living) or my long deceased beloved father, then I would have no problem resting in the sovereignty of God knowing that He alone is my peace and joy, and not a picture or a relic of someone or an inert bottle of something or other. For in Him we live and have our being. In Christ alone."

Oh, for Pete's sake! It was only an analogy. Don't be so overwrought. All I was saying was that the woman wanted to keep the water from being profaned, so she drank it. Forget the airport part, then. You would protect a picture of your mother or father from being profaned by someone who sought to destroy it or spit on it or some such, far beyond any effort another person would have undertaken to secure the same picture of *your* parent. The whole point was to get you to try to view things from another person's POV, even if you don't have the same emotional attachment. That's ALL there was to it. Trumpeting your unstinting loyalty to Christ alone (while commendable!) was not particularly a relevant reaction. Read the point to the analogy, don't simply compel it to formulate the punchline to your Statement of Faith. We all presume you are a sincere Christian.

24 posted on 08/29/2007 12:47:01 PM PDT by magisterium
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To: lupie

If you knew as much about Catholicism as you seem to proclaim why would you need to ask that question?


25 posted on 08/29/2007 12:55:55 PM PDT by tiki
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To: magisterium; lupie

I would add that the use of Holy Water proclaims our helplessness and reliance on God. In effect we are saying that we are powerless without the help of God.


26 posted on 08/29/2007 12:58:55 PM PDT by tiki
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To: magisterium
We Catholics do not make the mistake of supposing that the water would be anything more than an instrument in conveying God's miraculous favor, just as the mud that Jesus used to give sight to the blind was just His instrument in that circumstance.

Hmm. Do you speak for all RC's? You must not for this woman, for her actions do not say that. Neither do multitudes of others. I don't expect you to understand that though.

27 posted on 08/29/2007 1:24:00 PM PDT by lupie
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To: tiki

If it isn’t the water that is doing the healing or whatever, if it is JUST an instrument, then why care what happens to it? If God is big enough to use whatever He pleases, in the way He pleases, then how can a silly act of man of putting something in one container vs another container inhibit God or cause Him distress? Is not God bigger than a vial of water or a “trash” container? What if it were a bible? Would the woman have eaten the bible? Saudi Arabia does not allow bibles to come into their country - would you eat yours then?


28 posted on 08/29/2007 1:28:27 PM PDT by lupie
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
Incense?

Probably not ... that implies fire. And smoke. Also verboten in today's brave new world of air travel.

I had thought that charter aircraft operated under rules more akin to general aviation than commercial aviation. This is apparently not so.

29 posted on 08/29/2007 1:28:36 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: magisterium

I am not overwrought. I understand what you were saying. I understand what she did. Her faith was misplaced. We are all supposed to exalt His name in all we do, aren’t we?


30 posted on 08/29/2007 1:31:18 PM PDT by lupie
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To: tiki
If you knew as much about Catholicism as you seem to proclaim why would you need to ask that question?

Does that mean that you don't know what the biblical use of the word bless is? I was asking you.

31 posted on 08/29/2007 1:32:52 PM PDT by lupie
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To: lupie

Our Lord made good use of His creations in healing. Look at the mud and spittle He used to heal the blindman who was told to wash in the pool of Siloam.

Look to Baptism in the waters of the Jordan.

Baptism is a great healing of our souls.

” Your impression or not does not change the fact that she brought the water back for a special reason. Why that water as compared to any other “holy water”?

Ever hear of a souvenir? A memento? My sister has a rosary blessed by Pope John Paul. Does it mean that the rosary will “do something”, or “be something” different than a rosary I have with the great Benedictine blessing and exorcism by a very holy priest?

No. But I was very happy to be able to pray with her rosary.


32 posted on 08/29/2007 1:36:34 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: OpusatFR

Your post goes a long way to show one of the points I am trying to make - but I am sure you did not intend for it to. Oh well...


33 posted on 08/29/2007 1:38:56 PM PDT by lupie
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To: lupie

You’ll have to explain it to me for I am quite stupid sometimes.


34 posted on 08/29/2007 1:40:28 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: lupie

Matthew 13:14-15


35 posted on 08/29/2007 1:41:00 PM PDT by magisterium
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To: lupie

So you think you can impute your reasoning to her action? Do you read the hearts and minds of everyone or just this woman?


36 posted on 08/29/2007 1:41:42 PM PDT by tiki
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To: OpusatFR

Oh, I said the “magic word:” Rosary.

You don’t understand Sacramentals and it is no use trying to tell me that I don’t follow Jesus because of our beliefs in the blesings of a priest on a creature created by Our Lord in imitation of what He did.

Remember these words?

“- St. Matthew 26:26-32:
26- While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27- Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you,
28- for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
29- I tell you, from now on I shall not drink this fruit of the vine until the day when I drink it with you new in the kingdom of my Father.”
30- Then, after singing a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
31- Then Jesus said to them, “This night all of you will have your faith in me shaken, for it is written: ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be dispersed’;
32- but after I have been raised up, I shall go before you to Galilee.”

He Blessed the Bread.

Blessing things is pretty biblical.


37 posted on 08/29/2007 1:44:43 PM PDT by OpusatFR
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To: lupie
Once again, if you know so much about Catholicism you needn't ask this question because you already know the answer. You might not believe it but that makes it no less true.

You have said that you know about Catholicism and so I can only assume that you are attempting to play games with my beliefs because you don't accept them and I refuse to play that game anymore.

If you truly would like to be Catechized, I'll go the whole nine yards with you but if you are attempting to influence my thinking or disparage my faith then I won't go there anymore. Matthew 7:6

38 posted on 08/29/2007 1:51:34 PM PDT by tiki
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To: lupie

Yes, I know the biblical use of the word bless, I also know the Catholic beliefs, if you really know them and don’t accept them, fine.

Bye


39 posted on 08/29/2007 1:53:26 PM PDT by tiki
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To: magisterium

LOL... back at ya!


40 posted on 08/29/2007 2:00:27 PM PDT by lupie
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