Posted on 08/29/2007 8:04:23 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
There is no strange logic at all. I highlighted the word God in my post to differentiate between the supposed agents of any miracle. Your italicization of my quote obliterates the italics I myself used for the word "God." I ascribe any miracle coming from the use of the water to God, while you ascribe any claim of a miracle to the water itself. We Catholics do not make the mistake of supposing that the water would be anything more than an instrument in conveying God's miraculous favor, just as the mud that Jesus used to give sight to the blind was just His instrument in that circumstance.
I believe that it is water that was blessed by a priest (I’m sure you know how we think of priests) asking that those who use it be blessed. Sacramenatals, and we have a lot of them, remind us of the Sacraments and our relationship with Holy Trinity. When I make the Sign of the Cross, I am blessing myself, I am making God’s Grace present to myself and I am worshipping Him by using the gifts that He gave us.
I personally use Holy Water to bless our fields and our house. I am imploring God’s help through the use of a physical reminder and presence of God’s Grace.
Expecting to be healed of something by using Holy Water isn’t acceptable to me but God choosing the Holy Water to heal is a glorious occurence. God works throughout creation and uses who and what He will to further His Kingdom, if it is God’s Will it will be done with or without the use of sacramentals.
IOW, sacramentals remind us of God’s Grace and make His Grace present to us in a real way.
The sacraments, OTOH, are true encounters with Jesus, they also impart Grace but in the most intimate encounters with Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Can we swing incense instead? :-)
Oh, for Pete's sake! It was only an analogy. Don't be so overwrought. All I was saying was that the woman wanted to keep the water from being profaned, so she drank it. Forget the airport part, then. You would protect a picture of your mother or father from being profaned by someone who sought to destroy it or spit on it or some such, far beyond any effort another person would have undertaken to secure the same picture of *your* parent. The whole point was to get you to try to view things from another person's POV, even if you don't have the same emotional attachment. That's ALL there was to it. Trumpeting your unstinting loyalty to Christ alone (while commendable!) was not particularly a relevant reaction. Read the point to the analogy, don't simply compel it to formulate the punchline to your Statement of Faith. We all presume you are a sincere Christian.
If you knew as much about Catholicism as you seem to proclaim why would you need to ask that question?
I would add that the use of Holy Water proclaims our helplessness and reliance on God. In effect we are saying that we are powerless without the help of God.
Hmm. Do you speak for all RC's? You must not for this woman, for her actions do not say that. Neither do multitudes of others. I don't expect you to understand that though.
If it isn’t the water that is doing the healing or whatever, if it is JUST an instrument, then why care what happens to it? If God is big enough to use whatever He pleases, in the way He pleases, then how can a silly act of man of putting something in one container vs another container inhibit God or cause Him distress? Is not God bigger than a vial of water or a “trash” container? What if it were a bible? Would the woman have eaten the bible? Saudi Arabia does not allow bibles to come into their country - would you eat yours then?
Probably not ... that implies fire. And smoke. Also verboten in today's brave new world of air travel.
I had thought that charter aircraft operated under rules more akin to general aviation than commercial aviation. This is apparently not so.
I am not overwrought. I understand what you were saying. I understand what she did. Her faith was misplaced. We are all supposed to exalt His name in all we do, aren’t we?
Does that mean that you don't know what the biblical use of the word bless is? I was asking you.
Our Lord made good use of His creations in healing. Look at the mud and spittle He used to heal the blindman who was told to wash in the pool of Siloam.
Look to Baptism in the waters of the Jordan.
Baptism is a great healing of our souls.
” Your impression or not does not change the fact that she brought the water back for a special reason. Why that water as compared to any other “holy water”?
Ever hear of a souvenir? A memento? My sister has a rosary blessed by Pope John Paul. Does it mean that the rosary will “do something”, or “be something” different than a rosary I have with the great Benedictine blessing and exorcism by a very holy priest?
No. But I was very happy to be able to pray with her rosary.
Your post goes a long way to show one of the points I am trying to make - but I am sure you did not intend for it to. Oh well...
You’ll have to explain it to me for I am quite stupid sometimes.
Matthew 13:14-15
So you think you can impute your reasoning to her action? Do you read the hearts and minds of everyone or just this woman?
Oh, I said the “magic word:” Rosary.
You don’t understand Sacramentals and it is no use trying to tell me that I don’t follow Jesus because of our beliefs in the blesings of a priest on a creature created by Our Lord in imitation of what He did.
Remember these words?
“- St. Matthew 26:26-32:
26- While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
27- Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you,
28- for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.
29- I tell you, from now on I shall not drink this fruit of the vine until the day when I drink it with you new in the kingdom of my Father.”
30- Then, after singing a hymn, they went out to the Mount of Olives.
31- Then Jesus said to them, “This night all of you will have your faith in me shaken, for it is written: ‘I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be dispersed’;
32- but after I have been raised up, I shall go before you to Galilee.”
He Blessed the Bread.
Blessing things is pretty biblical.
You have said that you know about Catholicism and so I can only assume that you are attempting to play games with my beliefs because you don't accept them and I refuse to play that game anymore.
If you truly would like to be Catechized, I'll go the whole nine yards with you but if you are attempting to influence my thinking or disparage my faith then I won't go there anymore. Matthew 7:6
Yes, I know the biblical use of the word bless, I also know the Catholic beliefs, if you really know them and don’t accept them, fine.
Bye
LOL... back at ya!
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