CONFESSION & FORGIVENESS Toward Christian Health and Relationships [Charismatic Caucus]

Quix Commentary | 23 SEP 2007 | Quix

[Quix]

A few Scriptures and some Quix commentary . . .

 

Keeping in mind . . .

 

THESE SIGNS

 

SHALL FOLLOW

 

[FOLLOW WHO?]

 

THOSE WHO BELIEVE . . . cast out demons . . . speak with other tongues . . . etc.

 

AND . . . by reasonable extrapolation:

 

John 20:22-23 (The Message)

The Message (MSG)

Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson

 

22-23Then he took a deep breath and breathed into them. "Receive the Holy Spirit," he said. "If you forgive someone's sins, they're gone for good. If you don't forgive sins, what are you going to do with them?"

 

 

KJV: 2 Corinthians 2:9-11 (King James Version)

King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain

 

 

 9For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.

 

 10To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;

 

 11Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

 

AMPLIFIED: 2^ND COR 2:

    10If you forgive anyone anything, I too forgive that one; and what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sakes in the presence [and with the approval] of Christ (the Messiah),

 

    11To keep Satan from getting the advantage over us; for we are not ignorant of his wiles and intentions.

 

 

 

Perhaps there will be enough herein to offend everyone, though that’s the opposite of my goal. I do know from experience, that those so easily offended . . . particularly primarily by Scripture . . . are most likely losing out on treasures and potential treasures to them.

 

Those who are more inclined to take such to God in prayer and ask His Spirit to show them what (if anything) HE would have them learn from such pontifications—those Believers tend to grow more rapidly, deeply and broadly IN CHRIST, in my experience.

 

I do not believe that most Christians understand forgiveness remotely sufficiently to really please God in the matter.

1. Perhaps it’s lack of Scriptural awareness.
2. Perhaps it’s a lack of prayerfulness about such Scriptures.
3. Perhaps it’s a matter of pride, ego, vain glory.
4. Perhaps it’s a matter of bad teaching.
5. Perhaps it’s a matter of denominational boundaries and blindness there-from.
6. Perhaps it’s a matter of stubbornness, rebellion, idolatry at anything less than God.

 

2. Even the basics of THE LORD’S PRAYER REQUIRE us to be quick to forgive utterly—if that’s the kind of forgiveness we seek and need—and who of us doesn’t need that level of forgiveness?

 

3. I do not know that Believer’s pronouncements of forgiveness over others would always apply in the ways that the Believers offering such might imagine. For example, I doubt “LORD, I FORGIVE ALL THE POOR OF THE WORLD ALL THEIR SINS, PAST, PRESENT, FUTURE” would be as efficacious as we and the poor might prefer.

 

4. On the other hand, such a prayer prayed in faith MIGHT JUST WORK MORE GOOD THAN WE WOULD DARE IMAGINE. It may be that based on that prayer, God would send angels to take each poor person repeatedly to a point of decision for or against Christ until, where possible, short of violating their free-will—a given set of such poor individuals would end up Believers.

 

5. I do KNOW in the depths of my bone marrow, in my spirit . . . because of Scriptures shared in this post as well as Holy Spirit’s confirmation of such . . . that ON OCCASION, when Holy Spirit leads me to pronounce forgiveness over others . . . that God takes it very seriously and acts according to His Loving Will in the matter toward that other individual. I know it is well pleasing to The Lord and opens some kind of Heavenly door of opportunity toward their relationship with God in that individual’s life that may well not have been opened otherwise.

 

6. I know that folks are in Heaven who would not likely have been so, otherwise.

 

7. I also know that forgiveness is greatly called for and even essential in all kinds of needs for healing as Pastor Wrighkt’s A MORE EXCELLENT WAY: Be In Health—Spiritual Roots of Disease—Pathways to Wholeness documents from his extensive research and experience.

 

8. I know that most Believers I know live far below our rightful inheritance in Christ because of failure to properly understand the Godly, Biblical place confession and forgiveness are designed by God to have in our daily lives and relationships.

 

9. I’m contemplating a spiritual/medical experiment for FREEPERS interested in such in a future post about such. IF YOU ARE OR KNOW SOMEONE afflicted with an very troublesome medical problem such as he has great experience in facilitating healing for . . . please pray about participating . . . Such diseases include Multiple Chemical Sensitivities/Environmental Illness (MCS/EI); General Adaptation Syndrome (GAS) related diseases (Cardiovascular System, Coronary Artery, Strokes, Diseases of Heart Muscle from Inflammation, Rheumatoid Arthritis; Colon, skin, liver, breast, ovarian, uterine, Hodgkins & Leukemia, prostate cancers; asthma, high blood pressure, and whatever other diseases that he has demonstrated wholesale healing and recovery from repeatedly in his research and ministry.

 

1. Basically, I would be inviting 25 or so folks to get the book; perhaps connect up with his website and/or staff and pray through their issues accordingly—perhaps with local group prayer as fitting. If you can’t afford the book, I’d try and get as many as I could afford for such folks. Am still pondering such possibilities but am currently feeling that I should go ahead with it step by step and am in the preliminary steps stage of such a project.

 

10. The RC edifice does not have a corner on what God has done; is doing and will do. Some of them will discover this evidently rather late in the END TIMES scenarios. Some of them already realize it and are hooked up with Holy Spirit overcoming some of those organizational roadblocks to walking in the Abundant Life Christ died for us to walk in and sent His Spirit to aid us toward such. But then, a lot of Pentecostals, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans et al are walking far below their inheritance in Christ in such matters, too.

 

11. Many relationships and many physical bodies are in bondage, battered, bruised and mangled because of unforgiveness and because of a lack of willingness to confess as well as forgive faults, sins, bitterness etc. Those willfully holding onto unforgiveness and/or bitterness will end up getting worse and worse, in most all cases. GOD IS VERY SERIOUS about such.

 

12. Standing on our high horses and arrogance as excuses to fail to deal with such will be vividly seen as suicidal and foolish in the light of God’s fierce Spirit’s illuminations in due course. Far better it is to get things right, NOW.

 

13. Refusing to deal with such Biblically as Holy Spirit would lead because of denominational mind-sets etc. will be seen as foolish and suicidal.

 

14. I vigorously yet in humility exhort all FREEPERS and others reading this—you no longer have any excuse. The Scriptures are clear. PURPOSE IN YOUR HEART TO DEAL WITH SUCH BEGINNING IMMEDIATELY—AT LEAST IN YOUR HEART AND ASAP IN RELATIONSHIPS, IN PRAYER, WITH PERSISTENT FOLLOW THROUGH ACCORDINGLY.

 

15. The Biblical curse you walk in for refusing such has likely been long standing in your life and will only worsen.

 

16. A caution. I’m not joking. I’m not playing games. I’m not being presumptive. I’m not anyone of any human significance to say such things. I am merely a Believer with a burning in my heart, spirit, soul about such matters and convinced that I dare not fail to speak as a watchman on the wall about these matters. Those who scoff and turn away in derision; rationalization; arrogant pontification etc. instead of applying the Scriptures as Holy Spirit would lead—such rebellion against this exhortation will bear a more serious penalty than has been commonly the case in decades prior. God is racheting up the quicker following timing and seriousness of the consequences all of us incur by not being obedient to Holy Spirit’s leading and to Scripture.

 

17. So I encourage the reader to prayerfully take such pontifications to God and ask GOD WHAT GOD WOULD HAVE YOU DO WITHK REGARD TO SUCH. OBEY GOD ABOUT IT. Not me. Not the denomination. Not your spouse. Not your Pastor. Not your boss. Not your best friend. Obey God about it. HE ALONE MATTERS IN ULTIMATE TERMS.

 

18. Love, in Him, Quix

 

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AMPLIFIED: JOHN 20:

22And having said this, He breathed on them and said to them, Receive the Holy Spirit!

    23[Now having received the Holy Spirit, and being [a]led and directed by Him] if you forgive the sins of anyone, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of anyone, they are retained.

 

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NEW LIVING TRANSLATION:

22 Then he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

 

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CONTEMPORARY ENGLISH VERSION:

 

22Then he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone's sins, they will be forgiven. But if you don't forgive their sins, they will not be forgiven."

 

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YOUNG'S LITERAL TRANSLATION

 22and this having said, he breathed on [them], and saith to them, `Receive the Holy Spirit;

 

 23if of any ye may loose the sins, they are loosed to them; if of any ye may retain, they have been retained.'

 

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NEW LIFE VERSION:

22 When Jesus had said this, He breathed on them. He said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you say that people are free of sins, they are free of them. If you say that people are not free of sins, they still have them."

 

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NIV:

22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

 

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Matthew 6:14

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: Matthew 6:13-15 (in Context) Matthew 6 (Whole Chapter)  Matthew 6:15

But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

 

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Colossians 1:13-15 The Message (MSG)

Copyright © 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2002 by Eugene H. Peterson

 

   13-14God rescued us from dead-end alleys and dark dungeons. He's set us up in the kingdom of the Son he loves so much, the Son who got us out of the pit we were in, got rid of the sins we were doomed to keep repeating.

 

NIV COL 1:13-15

13For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14in whom we have redemption,[a] the forgiveness of sins.

 

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THE MESSAGE; LUKE 7:

 43-47Simon answered, "I suppose the one who was forgiven the most."

 

   "That's right," said Jesus. Then turning to the woman, but speaking to Simon, he said, "Do you see this woman? I came to your home; you provided no water for my feet, but she rained tears on my feet and dried them with her hair. You gave me no greeting, but from the time I arrived she hasn't quit kissing my feet. You provided nothing for freshening up, but she has soothed my feet with perfume. Impressive, isn't it? She was forgiven many, many sins, and so she is very, very grateful. If the forgiveness is minimal, the gratitude is minimal."

 

48Then he spoke to her: "I forgive your sins."

 

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THE MESSAGE: MAT 18:

 32-35"The king summoned the man and said, 'You evil servant! I forgave your entire debt when you begged me for mercy. Shouldn't you be compelled to be merciful to your fellow servant who asked for mercy?' The king was furious and put the screws to the man until he paid back his entire debt. And that's exactly what my Father in heaven is going to do to each one of you who doesn't forgive unconditionally anyone who asks for mercy."

 

 

AMPLIFIED: MAT 18:

    18Truly I tell you, whatever you forbid and declare to be improper and unlawful on earth must be [a]what is already forbidden in heaven, and whatever you permit and declare proper and lawful on earth must be [b]what is already permitted in heaven.

 

    19Again I tell you, if two of you on earth agree (harmonize together, make a symphony together) about whatever [anything and [c]everything] they may ask, it will come to pass and be done for them by My Father in heaven.

 

 

AMPLIFIED: MAT 16: 18And I tell you, you are [a]Peter [Greek, Petros--a large piece of rock], and on this rock [Greek, petra--a [b]huge rock like Gibraltar] I will build My church, and the gates of Hades (the powers of the [c]infernal region) shall [d]not overpower it [or be strong to its detriment or hold out against it].

 

    19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind (declare to be improper and unlawful) on earth [e]must be what is already bound in heaven; and whatever you loose (declare lawful) on earth [f]must be what is already loosed in heaven.(A)

 

 

I JOHN 1:

 8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.  9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

 

KJV: EPH 4:31Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
 32And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you

[Quix]

This is posted as a Charismatic Caucus because I mostly think that Charismatics are more open to such. Mutually respectful posts regarding how such might be applied in the posters' lives are welcome. Contentious, contrary etc. posts would be a violation of the Caucus rules.

Nothing hereing is intended nor designed to be an attack on any group or individual. All of us are in essentially the same boat in need of such, imho.

Some of us are more used to applying these Scriptures in literal functional ways than others. But I suspect all of us could do better regarding them.

I invite edifying growthful comments by one and all.

[Quix]

END TIMES PING LIST PING

Please let me know if you want on or off the list.

Bless you as you prayerfully ponder these issues.

Please contribute your spiritual and other insights on the issues in the spirit of a Charismatic Caucus.

[Tax-chick]

Thanks for posting this! Forgiving and receiving forgiveness is a tremendous conduit of God’s grace to us.

I recall that it is in this context, of forgiving others, that Jesus said, “You, therefore, must be perfect, as your Heavenly Father is perfect.”

[Quix]

Great points.

Thanks much.

[Kolokotronis]

Very nice, Q!

“Forgiveness is better than revenge” +Tikhon

[Salvation]

What about other Charismatics?

You say “Quix” list.

I disagree with that moniker.

Either one IS a Charismatic or one IS not. Nothing about “Quix” makes one a Cahristmatic.

[Quix]

Perhaps the misunderstanding arose from my trying to shorten the title sufficiently to post. I originally had ‘Quix Commentary” there and took Commentary out last.

I think everyone knows I just keep the ping list.

[Quix]

Taking Quix out of the title would be much better, clearer, if and when convenient.

Blessings,

[Quix]

Nothing about “Quix” makes one a Cahristmatic

= = = =

Perhaps being sufficiently annoyed by Quix could conceivably drive someone to seeking God so much that Holy Spirit overflowed from them in urgent petitional tongues!

[Tax-chick]

I think that was supposed to be “Quix’s Charismatic Caucus.” I’m quite slow, myself, but still Charismatic, in the religious if not the common sense :-).

[Tax-chick]

Perhaps being sufficiently annoyed by Quix could conceivably drive someone to seeking God so much that Holy Spirit overflowed from them in urgent petitional tongues!

That reminds me of an occasion after I became involved in the Charismatic Renewal, but before I received the gift of tongues. My family was at Mass - four children then, I think, and the 5th on the way - and our youngest started to get noisy. My husband took her out to the lobby. Then the next youngest started to act up, but I couldn't take him out and leave the other two (about 8 and 5) by themselves.

People all over the congregation were staring, and I put both my hands on Tom's head and started muttering, "God, strike him unconscious. God, get me out of this. God, an earthquake now would be really nice!" Nothing happened, though, except the service *finally* ended!

[Joya]

QUIX SAID:

I do not believe that most Christians understand forgiveness remotely sufficiently to really please God in the matter.

1. Perhaps it’s lack of Scriptural awareness.
2. Perhaps it’s a lack of prayerfulness about such Scriptures.
3. Perhaps it’s a matter of pride, ego, vain glory.
4. Perhaps it’s a matter of bad teaching.
5. Perhaps it’s a matter of denominational boundaries and blindness there-from.
6. Perhaps it’s a matter of stubbornness, rebellion, idolatry at anything less than God.

= =
I will add

7. Perhaps there are strongholds stopping some from forgiving.

= =
God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

If God isn’t looking to condemn, who am I to withhold forgiveness? Personally, I strive to pray this often:

“In Jesus’ Name I forgive all those who have sinned against me in any way.”

[Revel]

Well I’ll tell you what Quix. With forgiveness should come grace...Otherwise how can one call it forgiveness? For many years I have been the victim of a so called form of forgiveness that does not include grace. Believe me that Christians can find reasons to justify being graceless to the spirit of another. And the damage from that can be enough to destroy the spirit of another. Especially if the punishment is harsh enough.

There is an angle that is often missed in all of this forgiveness stuff. And that is fear. What if you fear that the other person is going to hurt you if you give them grace? Well the modern church teaches that is justification to withhold grace. Or they teach that Grace is not an action. That is because it has become worldly and does not teach God’s love and grace as we should extend it to others.

Consider this scripture though:

“There is no fear in love because fear has to do with punishment, and perfect love drives out fear.” 1st John 4:18

The whole premise of that scripture is not taught today.

I did find this recently though. It seems that David Wilkerson gets it.

http://www.timeforrenewal.com/wmedia/2070506S3.asx

Or

http://www.timeforrenewal.com/mp3/2070506S1.mp3

[Revel]

A really good story that I once found:

http://www.intervarsity.org/slj/ss98/ss98_faqs_about_forgiveness.html

[Quix]

Am very blessed and touched by your kind post.

Thanks much.

Do you have a profound example of forgiveness acted out—from your spiritual heritage and/or personal experiences—that could be instructive for us ‘Charismaniacs?’

[Quix]

LOL.

Thanks.

My imagination painted a vivid pic of that scene.

[Quix]

Excellent points. Thanks.

[Salvation]

**Perhaps being sufficiently annoyed by Quix could conceivably drive someone to seeking God so much that Holy Spirit overflowed from them in urgent petitional tongues!**

No, that didn’t happen. What I thought was that even in the Charismatic definiting in the topics, I don’t see “Quix.” I just laughed and thought it needed to be addressed.

For your information on the Charismatic topic list:

**Assemblies of God, pentacostalism, charismatic movement etc**

That includes Catholics who have taken part in a charismatic movement, too.

[Salvation]

I have one word in answer to all the “perhaps”

Humility

[Quix]

Excellent points and links.

Thanks.

Certainly fear is a biggy in our lives . . . and the enemy tries to make it a bigger and bigger thing.

There’s growing evidence that it leads to physical illness as well as spiritual illness.

How many times is it that Scripture includes the phrase in the KJV: “FEAR NOT!”

That’s a command that we seem too often helpless to obey . . . yet—that can’t be true . . . at least God can enable us and mature us to the point where it’s not very true.

An important point and a persistent issue in Pastor Wright’s work with “incurable” diseases and healing therefrom.