Posted on 10/08/2007 7:49:32 AM PDT by colorcountry
Not only is Mormonism a Christian faith, it is the truest form of Christianity, said speaker after speaker on the first day of the 177th Semiannual LDS General Conference. LDS authorities were responding to the allegation that Mormonism isn't part of Christianity. Made by different mainline Protestant and Catholic churches and repeated constantly during coverage of Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, the claim is based on Mormonism's beliefs about God, its rejection of ancient ideas about the Trinity still widely accepted, and the LDS Church's extra-biblical scriptures. "It is not our purpose to demean any person's belief nor the doctrine of any religion," said Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland in the afternoon session. "But if one says we are not Christians because we do not hold a fourth- or fifth-century view of the Godhead, then what of those first [Christians], many of whom were eye-witnesses of the living Christ, who did not hold such a view either?"
{snip}
The day's sermons included many familiar themes, including the importance of faith, the need for pure thoughts and actions, avoiding pornography reaching out to neighbors and eliminating spiritual procrastination. Hinckley talked about the destructive nature of anger in marriages, on the road, and in life, urging Mormons to "control your tempers, to put a smile upon your faces, which will erase anger; speak with words of love and peace, appreciation and respect."
because humans are creatures that were created BY God who created the universe.
He is all powerful. He always was, and always will be.
He has never changed, nor will He ever change.
We will never be all powerful creators. We will not be receiving our own planet to “save”.
We did not always exist, we had a beginning of our existence.
We will always remain creatures - created by God for all eternity.
This is the faith Christ handed to the Apostles, and that faith never “died out”.
The Apostles founded churches - they appointed leaders to succeed them after their deaths.
There is no point in history since the beginning of christianity where the faith “died out”.
The “Great Apostasy” is a lie.
There is a difference between God the Almighty and gods.
“Ye are gods.”
We are promised that we can inherit all that the Father hath. We are commanded to be perfect, even as our Father in Heaven is perfect. Why can He not, and as a loving Father why would he not, share his glory and godhood with his children?
Where in the scriptures does God say that He does NOT want His children to become like Him?
We can be “like” Him, but we cannot be “gods”.
There is only one God.
He repeated throughout old and new testament there is only one God.
Inheriting from the Father does not make us gods.
Sharing in his wonderful gifts does not make us gods.
And even when our souls are purified and we are rid of all the “muck” of this world - we still will not be gods.
We will always remain souls that were created by Him to share love with him, to be part of His family.
We will never be gods.
Writings of early christians...
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/
http://www.ccel.org/fathers2
there was no apostasy, otherwise I’m wondering who was burying their dead here in the first centuries of christianity...
http://www.catacombe.roma.it/en/spiritualita.html
I'd suggest perusal of The Age of Reason by Thomas Paine before making that claim.
a better link to the catacombe site to get access to all the info...
http://www.catacombe.roma.it/index.html
I didn’t write the chart. But thanks for the thoughtful advice ... read Paine’s Age Of Reason more than three decades ago, so my memory is a bit rusty on it. I wasn’t a Christian when I read it, either.
I’m fading fast and am calling it a night.
here are articles concerning monotheism (note the section regarding “christian monotheism”)
and the Blessed Trinity.
While these are catholic sites, I cannot think of any christian denomination that would disagree with the points made regarding christian monotheism and the Trinity.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10499a.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15047a.htm
Good night
This is the fundamental disconnect between orthodox monotheistic religions (Christianity and Judaism) and Mormonism.
God cannot "share godhood" with human beings, for the simple reason that the essential and defining attribute of divinity is uncreated eternal existence.
Can God make you uncreated? Of course not; the question is its own contradiction. Can God make you eternal? We, he can, and did, make you so that you will live forever, but that's not quite the same as making you eternal, because you started at a point in time. God cannot "make you eternal," in the sense of eternally pre-existent, because, again, it's a contradiction in terms. The act of "making" automatically implies that you didn't exist before you were made.
God, on the other hand, was never made uncreated, and that's exactly the point: God was never made. He just eternally is. "I AM WHO AM." God the Father was not made. God the Son was not made ("begotten, not made, before all the ages," says the Nicene Creed.). God the Holy Spirit was not made.
The "godhood" you describe is the godhood of polytheistic paganism, which is not godhood at all, but simply an order of created being higher than that of human beings.
Orthodox Christians know of such an order of created being. We call the good ones, "angels". Some of them are fallen. Those are "demons".
Think of who might want you to worship a being which is not God, but merely of a higher order of created existence than humans. Hint: it's not going to be a good angel who wants that.
I’m not surprised that you can’t see what the Bible actually teaches:
• We were created in the image of God
• God is the father of our spirits
• We are the offspring of God
• Christ calls us gods
• Man has become as God
• We will inherit all things
• We will be co-heirs with Christ of all things
• We will have glory
• We will have thrones
• We will be filled with the fullness of God
• We will be partakers of the divine nature of God
• We will be one with God
• We shall be like Him
• Our bodies will be fashioned like His glorious body
• We can gain perfection
When I see all that evidence, the idea that we can become gods is not heresy, it is Christian doctrine. You have such a narrow definition of God, that you cannot see the promises of godhood he has extended to us. It’s right in fromt of your eyes.
What, in your opinion, is the ultimate goal God has for us? What is to become of us?
Uncreated eternal existence is a characteristic of THE God, God the Almighty, God the eternal Father.
Who says that it has to be a characteristic of the godlike essence we will inherit from the Father?
Maybe it's all a matter of semantics, then.
Some of you may want to file this one for future reference ...
• We were created in the image of God
• God is the father of our spirits
• We are the offspring of God
• Christ calls us gods
• Man has become as God
• We will inherit all things
• We will be co-heirs with Christ of all things
• We will have glory
• We will have thrones
• We will be filled with the fullness of God
• We will be partakers of the divine nature of God
• We will be one with God
• We shall be like Him
• Our bodies will be fashioned like His glorious body
• We can gain perfection
You are soooooo right about this becoming God thing. That’s why I accelerated my own path to Godhood, then came back in time and claimed Earth as my planet. Now, what I want you to down on your knees and worship me as your new God.
It’s so simple, a child could do it!
I would consider Episcopalianism a worse heresy than Mormonism. Episcopalian beliefs:
There is no sin.
All are saved.
Jesus is not the only way to salvation; there are many ways that are equally worthy.
The Bible is not authoritative.
Humans wrote the Bible, the Episcopal Church can re-write the Bible.
The Bible is a product of a chauvinistic, male-dominated homophobic culture.
The New Testament scriptures on moral purity are not binding.
You are a Christian purely by baptism, not by repentance or by faith or by manner of living.
God’s commands are not authoritative.
There are no absolute truths, you have to live into the tension of both-and, not either-or, to find spiritual enlightenment.
God is Love, Love is God.
It is fine to pray to Mother Jesus.
Jesus is fine with sin.
God accepts you just as you are, and everything’s ok with him.
The goal of Christians is to implement the United Nations’ Millenium Development Goals.
Heresy is always better than schism.
Given a choice, I’ll take the Mormons.
Your opinion bothers me not one bit. Of course I think you are wrong, but God will sort it out.
I also think you are twisting the teachings of the Episcopalian, but since I never met one in person, let alone studied their beliefs, I will let it stand.
BTW, this particular thread is about Mormonism and its claims. Not Episcopalians.
Well that would be true if it were solely hermeneutics that were going into this. Remember, we don't hold to Sola Scriptura! :)
Look, we simply do not approach Scripture as if we were a purely blank cultural/historical slate, and as if the Holy Spirit would somehow be our infallible guide to reconstructing Christian worship based on what we find in the NT (or what we think we find).
For us the faith began as a community not as a book, with traditions passed down from the Apostles to each subsequent generation in various places and among various cultures. The book, i.e. the NT, is an infallible guide to Christianity, but it is not a complete guide to Christianity....as evidenced in the fact that the Trinity does not explicitly appear in it.
If you ask me, can I prove the Catholic priesthood from that text, of course the answer is no. I can't prove that anymore than you can prove Wednesday Night Bible Studies. But understanding that the priesthood was already there from Peter/James/John through Clement through Irenaeus all the way up to the present...then we can look at texts like that and see a clear relationship.
Excellent!
Seems to me that a fundamental of rational thought is that most things have edges, or they’re meaningless.
2 Chr. 15: 7 Be ye strong . . . for your work shall be rewarded.
Ps. 28: 4 (Rev. 2: 23) Give them according to their deeds.
Ps. 62: 12 (Prov. 24: 12, 29; Rom. 2: 5-11) renderest to every man according to his work.
Eccl. 12: 14 God shall bring every work into judgment.
Jer. 17: 10 (Jer. 32: 19) to give every man according to his ways.
Micah 6: 8 do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly.
Matt. 5: 6 they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness.
Matt. 5: 16 that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father.
Matt. 7: 12 whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them.
Matt. 7: 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.
Matt. 13: 23 received seed into the good ground . . . beareth fruit.
Matt. 16: 27 (1 Cor. 3: 8; Alma 9: 27-28; D&C 138: 59) shall reward every man according to his works.
Matt. 25: 40 as ye have done it unto one of the least of these . . . ye have done it unto me.
John 3: 21 he that doeth truth cometh to the light.
John 8: 39 If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
John 9: 4 I must work the works of him that sent me.
Acts 10: 35 he that . . . worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
Rom. 2: 13 doers of the law shall be justified.
2 Cor. 5: 10 receive . . . according to that he hath done.
Gal. 6: 4 let every man prove his own work.
Gal. 6: 7 whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Eph. 2: 10 created in Christ Jesus unto good works.
Eph. 5: 9 fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness.
2 Tim. 3: 17 perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
Titus 3: 8 be careful to maintain good works.
Heb. 13: 21 Make you perfect in every good work to do his will.
James 1: 22 be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only.
James 1: 27 Pure religion . . . is this, To visit the fatherless.
James 2: 22 by works was faith made perfect.
James 2: 26 faith without works is dead.
James 4: 17 him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not.
1 Pet. 1: 17 (Rev. 20: 12-13; 1 Ne. 15: 32; Mosiah 3: 24; Alma 33: 22; D&C 19: 3; D&C 76: 111; D&C 137: 9) Father . . . judgeth according to every man’s work.
1 Pet. 2: 12 your good works . . . glorify God.
2 Pet. 1: 5 add to your faith virtue.
1 Jn. 3: 18 let us not love in word . . . but in deed.
1 Jn. 3: 22 we receive of him, because we keep his commandments.
Rev. 22: 14 blessed are they that do his commandments.
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