Posted on 10/08/2007 7:49:32 AM PDT by colorcountry
Not only is Mormonism a Christian faith, it is the truest form of Christianity, said speaker after speaker on the first day of the 177th Semiannual LDS General Conference. LDS authorities were responding to the allegation that Mormonism isn't part of Christianity. Made by different mainline Protestant and Catholic churches and repeated constantly during coverage of Mitt Romney's presidential campaign, the claim is based on Mormonism's beliefs about God, its rejection of ancient ideas about the Trinity still widely accepted, and the LDS Church's extra-biblical scriptures. "It is not our purpose to demean any person's belief nor the doctrine of any religion," said Apostle Jeffrey R. Holland in the afternoon session. "But if one says we are not Christians because we do not hold a fourth- or fifth-century view of the Godhead, then what of those first [Christians], many of whom were eye-witnesses of the living Christ, who did not hold such a view either?"
{snip}
The day's sermons included many familiar themes, including the importance of faith, the need for pure thoughts and actions, avoiding pornography reaching out to neighbors and eliminating spiritual procrastination. Hinckley talked about the destructive nature of anger in marriages, on the road, and in life, urging Mormons to "control your tempers, to put a smile upon your faces, which will erase anger; speak with words of love and peace, appreciation and respect."
Then read the other comments, or any thread. You want rational, objective reasons why one cannot be Mormon AND a genuine student of Christ’s, it’s in plain view.
- OR -
Can I say that there is only one true God, that salvation is by grace ALONE through faith ALONE in Christ ALONE, and that the Bible ALONE is the inerrant word of God, and call myself a Mormon?
Recently, Mormonism has sought legitimacy by claiming to be “Christian”, and following the Jesus of the Bible, but this is a very recent phenomena in it's history. Fortunately, it’s current president/leader has admitted that Mormons do not in point of fact follow the traditional Christ of the Bible, or of biblical Christianity::
The current president of the Mormon Church, Gordon B. Hinckley, made a very telling comment about Jesus Christ in a talk in Geneva, Switzerland, June 6, 1998. The Deseret News reported:
In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints "do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fullness of Times.
He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph Smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages." (Deseret News, Church News section, Salt Lake City, Utah, week ending June 20, 1998, p. 7)
President. Hinckley, the leader of Mormonism, was being totally honest and told the truth; Mormons do not worship the traditional Jesus Christ who is described in the Bible, the Holy Word of God. They worship a false christ as proclaimed and taught by Joseph Smith, who, according to Hinckley “knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages"... if you believe that, there is a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.
It should be noted that, from its inception Mormonism has been deemed a cult and NEVER been recognized as being a part of “Christianity or Christendom because it’s core doctrines are in total opposition to the Word of God, the doctrine of salvation, the Christ of the Bible, and the Christ of Christianity.
Mormonism is a religious cult that believes that “the Bible is full of errors”, that the ludicrous Book of Mormon has supplanted the Bible and is “god’s” latest revelation to mankind, that their so-called leader/president speaks new/divine revelation from “god”, that Jesus Christ is Satan’s brother, that “god” was once a man and that men, by following the doctrines and dictates of Mormonism can become “gods” ruling over their own planets, propagating these new worlds by having sex with the wives they have married here on earth. Holy underwear, that Jesus Christ came to America, that the Indians were Jews, that god has a physical body and the virgin birth was the direct result of “god” having sex with Mary. These doctrines and teachings are completely different from and opposed to "traditional/biblical" Christianity.
I, along with others who have mentioned these facts concerning Mormonism are telling the truth about the CULT in order to educate the public at large. Whether people wish to acknowledge it or not, the fact of the matter is this: what one believes and follows has a direct bearing and impact upon how they live their lives and how they view the world and their place in it and in the case of politicians, …how they govern (The "president" of Iran is a good example of the reailty behind this principle). Therefore, stating what Mormonism teaches, believes and practices is not “Mormon bashing", it is presenting reality.
No. I did not say that because I do not believe it.
Right. Well, keep in mind that these terms are very old and came about in a time when there were not all the denominations we have today. It was easier to label a heretic, because there was only one Church doing the labeling. As for how you Reformation folks parse out the differences, I'm not sure of that.
I could see why, from your perspective, the Athanasian Creed would be a good benchmark for orthodoxy.
Logo, I've raised the prayer issue with you before, but not (I believe) worshipping Jesus. I've raised issues like polytheism vs. monotheism but not whether you directly reference Jesus as your God.
Why do Mormons have baptism for the dead, for dead who are not related to the one undergoing the proxy baptism? What function does that serve in your mind?
Islam and Mormonism are referred to in Roget's Thesaurus of English Words and Phrases (including the hard copy I have) as a pseudo religion.
Here is an online link: Pseudo-Revelation
-- N. the Koran, the Alcoran; Lyking, Vedas, Zendavest, Avesta, Sastra, Shastra, Tantra, Upanishads, Purana, Edda; Book of Mormon. [Non-Biblical prophets and religious founders] Gautama, Buddha; Zoroaster, Confucius, Bab-ed-Din, Mohammed. [Idols] golden calf &c. 991; Baal, Moloch, Dagon.
The Apostolic Churches reject:
1.) the invisible-church ecclesiology in the answer to #1.
2.) That the priesthood of all believers excludes a true sacrificial priesthood of the Order of Melchizedek.
3.) that the Bible is the *complete* rule of faith.
We believe in a true, visible, organized Church, with a sacrificial priesthood, and with the Church itself giving us the infallible rule of faith.
#2??? Is there an order of Melchizedek?
I used to receive annual visits from the local mormon boys.
One year I got tired of the same old feeling we really were not speaking the same language or using the same definitions concerning basic concepts, so I decided to be better prepared for the next visit.
When the came they immediately got into the “Great Apostasy” and how the true faith died out upon the death of the last apostle.
I pointed this simply is not true, and that claim alone is enough to reject their faith.
The earliest christians left behind a great deal of evidence of their existence and beliefs, and they in no way resembled today’s mormonism.
We then locked horns concerning the virgin birth, and the nature of God and Christ.
Again - they do not share the faith of the Apostles concerning these issues, so they cannot make claim of “restoration”.
I don’t think mormons fully appreciate how blasphemous a belief it is to claim God was like us - a man - and that we can become like Him.
This is completely incompatible with christianity and reminds me of the great lie Satan sold to Eve.
The notion that mormonism is “christian” is about equivalent with Tom Cruise’s ridiculous statement that one can be catholic and a scientologist at the same time.
I place mormonism and scientology in the same category.
Both “faiths” were invented by con men.
The Lord has sworn and will not repent: “Thou art a priest FOREVER according to the order of Melchizedek.”
You are not unaware of Catholic/Orthodox/Anglo-Catholic teaching on the priesthood, I assume?
I said earlier it wasn't an important issue what one calls oneself, but this thread is actually starting to make me angry.
Logophile, what right does anyone have to tell you you can't call yourself a Christian? Just because you hold what we know to be heterodox opinions?
I'm Catholic. If that's the silly criteria we're operating under, then what's to stop me from making an equally obnoxious demand that every Protestant on this thread stop calling themselves Christians?
My goodness folks. It is part of *Christian* charity to assume the best intentions in someone.
Quite right ... if people were telling Logophile he is not a Christian. Mormonism is an heretical look-alike to Christianity. There are some Christians in that cult, but I wouldn’t begin to guess how many of its adherents are Christians, the religion of Mormonism isn’t, though.
ping
I am puzzled. How can you site a verse from the Book of Psalms, that refers to Jesus, and apply that to the Roman Catholic priesthood? That is what is sometimes known as hermeneutical gymnastics.
Quite right mighty,
No one can know the heart of another. Logophile or anyone else in Mormonism might actually trust Jesus Christ as their savior through no works of their own. That is not up to me to discern.
But if someone were to tell me Mormonism is a Christian doctrine, I would have to disagree.
What year did Mormons start referring themselves as being Christians? This is a recent event in the Mormon doctrine. They were taught from the beginning that they were "Mormons" not Christians.
It has been just recently that the Mormons have started this new Campaign to have the world refer them as "Christians".
And if you do not call them Christians you are a bigot.
Trying to figure out who falls into what category of Christian is made even more confusing by the fact at most Christians of all denominations consider themselves the one true catholic (universal) and orthodox (correct) church - though many of them admit to not being apostolic.
I am thinking maybe we Christians should come up with a new way of identifying each other's beliefs - our commonalities and differences - I am talking about the ecumenical councils - churches can identify themselves as to how many of the ecumenical councils they uphold as part of their faith.
Starting off with a false, blanket statement regarding Protestant (and other) denominations will only weaken any argument or suggestions that you might posit.
Might I suggest an alternate method to identify Christian denominations?
The Articles of Faith
of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Joseph Smith
From the Official Mormon website
Article 10: We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent
Now consider this vow, taken by those "endowed" in a ritual in the LDS temples:
TEMPLE NARRATOR: (All patrons stand.) "Each of you bring your right arm to the square. You and each of you covenant and promise before God, angels, and these witnesses at this altar, that you do accept the Law of Consecration as contained in this, (The Officiator holds up a copy of the Doctrine and Covenants again.), the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, in that you do consecrate yourselves, your time, talents, and everything with which the Lord has blessed you, or with which he may bless you, to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for the building up of the Kingdom of God on the earth and for the establishment of Zion."
Mitt Romney has taken this vow. I believe that his allegiance to the "Kingdom of Zion" represented by the mormon church, would come before his allegiance to the US if he were to become POTUS.
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