Posted on 10/25/2007 9:24:05 AM PDT by NYer
The Other Christ: Padre Pio and 19th Century Italy, by the historian Sergio Luzzatto, draws on a document found in the Vatican's archive.
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The document reveals the testimony of a pharmacist who said that the young Padre Pio bought four grams of carbolic acid in 1919.
"I was an admirer of Padre Pio and I met him for the first time on 31 July 1919," wrote Maria De Vito.
She claimed to have spent a month with the priest in the southern town of San Giovanni Rotondo, seeing him often.
"Padre Pio called me to him in complete secrecy and telling me not to tell his fellow brothers, he gave me personally an empty bottle, and asked if I would act as a chauffeur to transport it back from Foggia to San Giovanni Rotondo with four grams of pure carbolic acid.
"He explained that the acid was for disinfecting syringes for injections. He also asked for other things, such as Valda pastilles."
The testimony was originally presented to the Vatican by the Archbishop of Manfredonia, Pasquale Gagliardi, as proof that Padre Pio caused his own stigmata with acid.
It was examined by the Holy See during the beatification process of Padre Pio and apparently dismissed.
Padre Pio, whose real name was Francesco Forgione, died in 1968. He was made a saint in 2002. A recent survey in Italy showed that more people prayed to him than to Jesus or the Virgin Mary. He exhibited stigmata throughout his life, starting in 1911.
The new allegations were greeted with an instant dismissal from his supporters. The Catholic Anti-Defamation League said Mr Luzzatto was a liar and was "spreading anti-Catholic libels".
Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.
"We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."
Yea, Not only cloning but they have figured a way to join two womens eggs and get a female embryo.
I am sure none of this is a surprise to God, so I guess we have to trust Him to handle it :)
Jesus came to this earth to walk with sinful men, He got his feet dirty and ate with tax collectors. The womb of Mary was a part of the human condition that He was entering.
I love Mary, she was a wonderful role model. My daughters both have a title of Mary in their names. But she was not ever God. She was a human woman with the same needs and desires that we all share.That was what made her “yes” so meaningful :)
And reject the Word of G-d !Again you are willing to accept the word of man.
shalom b'shem Yah'shua
But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother." -- Matthew 12:-50"Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee.
Why not pray to Christ's other mothers and other brothers and other sisters?
So you do not believe that each member of the trinity is equal with the other?
Essence
The word “essence” may be defined as the intrinsic or indispensable properties that serve to characterize or identify something.[1] Essence describes what it is to be God. The three persons of the Godhead share the same essence, and God’s essence is immaterial. With this understanding, the doctrine of the Trinity continues to assert monotheism, an essential and easily found belief within Scripture.
I thought this was another Christopher Hitchens “Whack the Saints” piece.
What's wrong with this picture?
“The Queen Mother concept is from the Babylonian religions, not Christianity.”
I never said Christianity, I said the Kingdom of Jerusalem.
Go back and read Kings.
There is a principle of succession seen in the Davidic kingdom. There is also the important role of the prime minister in David’s kingdom who holds the “keys to the kingdom” and the queen mother who had influence with the king.
The gebhirah, or queen mother, occupied a position of high social and political importance; she took rank almost with the king. When Bath-sheba, the mother of Solomon, desired “to speak unto him for Adonijah,” her son “rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a throne to be set for the king’s mother; and she sat on his right hand” (1 Ki 2:19).
Dan 5:10 the term malketha’ “queen,” really means the mother of the king).
The political importance of the gebhirah (the Queen Mother) is illustrated by the fact that in the Books of Kings, with two exceptions, the names of the Jewish kings are recorded together with those of their respective mothers; they are as follows: Naamah, the Ammonitess, the mother of Rehoboam (1 Ki 14:21; compare 14:31, and 2 Ch 12:13); Maacah, the daughter of Abishalom (1 Ki 15:2) or Absalom (2 Ch 11:20) the mother of Abijah; Maacah, the daughter of Abishalom, the mother of Asa (1 Ki 15:10; compare 2 Ch 15:16); Azubah, the daughter of Shilhi, the mother of Jehoshaphat (1 Ki 22:42; compare 2 Ch 20:31); Athaliah, the grand-daughter of Omri, the mother of Ahaziah (2 Ki 8:26; compare 2 Ch 22:2); Zibiah of Beersheba, the mother of Jehoash (2 Ki 12:1; compare 2 Ch 24:1); Jehoaddin (Jehoaddan, 2 Ch 25:1) of Jerusalem, the mother of Amaziah (2 Ki 14:2); Jecoliah (Jechiliah, 2 Ch 26:3) of Jerusalem, the mother of Azariah (2 Ki 15:2) or Uzziah (2 Ki 15:13,30, etc.; compare 2 Ch 26:3); Jerusha (Jerushah, 2 Ch 27:1), the daughter of Zadok, the mother of Jotham (2 Ki 15:33); Abi (Abijah, 2 Ch 29:1), the daughter of Zechariah, the mother of Hezekiah (2 Ki 18:2); Hephzibah, the mother of Manasseh (2 Ki 21:1); Meshullemeth, the daughter of Haruz of Jotbah, the mother of Amon (2 Ki 21:19); Jedidah, the daughter of Adaiah of Bozkath, the mother of Josiah (2 Ki 22:1); Hamutal, the daughter of Jeremiah of Libnah, the mother of Jehoahaz (2 Ki 23:31); Zebidah, the daughter of Pedaiah of Rumah, the mother of Jehoiakim (2 Ki 23:36); Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem, the mother of Jehoiachin (2 Ki 24:8); Hamutal (Hamital), the daughter of Jeremiah of Libnah, the mother Of Zedekiah (2 Ki 24:18). The exceptions are Jehoram and Ahaz.
“In the eighteenth year of King Jeroboam the son of Nabat, Abijam became king over Judah. 2 He ruled for three years in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Maacah the daughter of Abishalom.”
” In the twentieth year of Jeroboam the king of Israel, Asa began to rule as king of Judah. 10 He ruled for fortyone years in Jerusalem. His mother’s name was Maacah the daughter of Abishalom. 11 And Asa did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, like David his father. 12 He sent away the men from the land who sold the use of their bodies in their religion. He took away all the false gods his father had made. 13 He stopped his mother Maacah from being queen mother...”
No Queen Mothers in Juda huh?
The new covenant fulfills the Davidic covenant and is a kingdom like the kingdom of David. Jesus sets up 12 apostles, a prime minister who holds the keys and a queen mother in His own kingdom the Promised Land of Heaven.
Go read Samuel and Luke. You have to understand Typology. The old testament was meant to be read along with the New. Not before the New. The New is concealed in the Old and the Old is revealed in the New.
David went out to retrieve the ark (1 Sam 6:1-2). After a man named Uzzah was struck dead when he touched the ark, David was afraid and said, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” He left the ark in the hill country of Judea for three months. David danced and leapt in front of the ark and everyone shouted for joy. The house of Obededom, which had housed the ark, was blessed, and then David took the ark to Jerusalem (2 Sam. 6:9-14).
Compare David and the ark to Luke’s account of the Visitation:
In those days Mary arose and went with haste into the hill country, to a city of Judah, and she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth. And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit and she exclaimed with a loud cry, “Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me? For behold, when the voice of your greeting came to my ears, the babe in my womb leaped for joy. And blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfillment of what was spoken to her from the Lord” (Luke 1:39-45).
Here are the parallels:
* Mary arose and went to the hill country of Judea. Ein Kerem (where Elizabeth lived) and Abu Ghosh (where the ark resided) are only a short walk apart. Mary and the ark were both on a journey to the same hill country of Judea.
* When David saw the ark he rejoiced and said, “How can the ark of the Lord come to me?” Elizabeth uses almost the same words: “Why is this granted me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?” Luke is telling us something — drawing our minds back to the Old Testament, showing us a parallel.
* When David approached the ark he shouted out and danced and leapt in front of the ark. He was wearing an ephod, the clothing of a priest. When Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, approached Elizabeth, John the Baptist leapt in his mother’s womb — and John was from the priestly line of Aaron. Both leapt and danced in the presence of the ark. The Ark of the Old Covenant remained in the house of Obed-edom for three months, and Mary remained in the house of Elizabeth for three months. The place that housed the ark for three months was blessed, and in the short paragraph in Luke, Elizabeth uses the word blessed three times. Her home was certainly blessed by the presence of the ark and the Lord within.
* When the Old Testament ark arrived — as when Mary arrived — they were both greeted with shouts of joy. The word for the cry of Elizabeth’s greeting is a rare Greek word used in connection with Old Testament liturgical ceremonies that were centered around the ark and worship (cf. Word Biblical Commentary, 67). This word would flip on the light switch for any knowledgeable Jew.
* The ark returns to its home and ends up in Jerusalem, where God’s presence and glory is revealed in the temple (2 Sam. 6:12; 1 Kgs. 8:9-11). Mary returns home and eventually ends up in Jerusalem, where she presents God incarnate in the temple (Luke 1:56; 2:21-22).
It seems clear that Luke has used typology to reveal something about the place of Mary in salvation history. In the Ark of the Old Covenant, God came to his people with a spiritual presence, but in Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant, God comes to dwell with his people not only spiritually but physically, in the womb of a specially prepared Jewish girl.
Now why did Uzzah die when he touched the Ark of the Covenant? Because he was with sin. Jesus the New Covenant could not be carried in a Flesh and Blood Ark that had been touched by Sin. Thus God blocked original Sin from Mary. Nothing is impossible for God. How do we know she is the New Ark? Read Revelation 11:19, “Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple?’ Immediately following “And a great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; she was with child” (Rev. 12:1-2)
Waitaminnit! Wait just one daggone minute! There we go agreeing again! What's going to happen to the religious controversy blood sport at Free Republic!? Maybe we can get the Religion Moderator to come in here and antagonize us :o)
Postulating Mary as the Ark is utter hogwash.
The woman in Tribulation, Revelation has no possibility of being Mary.
Sigh.
“So you do not believe that each member of the trinity is equal with the other?”
Equality is not an attribute of the ousia of God. All the hypostases are of one ousia. What does “equality”, which implies separateness, have to do with the Trinity?
Here, try this from the Orthodox-Reformed Dialog in Switzerland in 1992:
“Since there is only one Trinity in Unity, and one Unity in Trinity, there is only one indivisible Godhead, and only one Arche (arche) or Monarchia (monarchia). As such, however, Gregory the Theologian reminds us, “It is a Monarchy that is not limited to one Person” (Or. 29.2). “The Godhead is one in Three, and the Three are One, in whom all the Godhead is, or, to be more precise, who are the Godhead” (Or. 39.11). “Each person is God when considered in himself; as the Father, so the Son, and as the Son, so the Holy Spirit; the Three One God when contemplated together; Each God because consubstantial; one God because of the Monarchy. I cannot think of the One without being enlightened by the splendour of the Three; not can I distinguish them without being carried back to the One” (Gregory the Theologian, Or. 40.41). “In proclaiming the divine Monarchia we do not err, but confess the Trinity, and Trinity in Unity, One Godhead of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (ten triada, monada en triadi, kai triada en monadi, mian theoteta patros kai huiou, kai hagiou pneumatos) (Epiphanius, Haer. 62.3). The mia arche or Monarchia is inseparable from the Trinity, the Monas from the Trias. As such the Monarchy of the Father within the Trinity is not exclusive of the Monarchy of the whole undivided Trinity in relation to the whole of creation. Hence all worship and glorification by the creature is offered “to God the Father through the Son and in the Spirit” or “to the Father with the Son and together with the Holy Spirit”, that is, to the one indivisible God who is Three in One and One in Three, the Holy Trinity who is blessed for ever.”
God bless your heart, we do that, too! I even pray to you !
I pray you, dear Dr. Eckleburg, please pray to the Lord for me, a sinner.
Please don't misunderstand this as saying he "is" the Ark in an identical, one-for-one sense. Please note I said the Ark was a "type."
You understand what is meant by typology, right? Metaphor? Like manna is a "type" for the bread of communion, the water of the Noah-era flood is a "type" for the water of Baptism, the "old Adam" is a type for the "new Adam," Jonah being in the fish's belly is a "type" for the Son of Man being in the grave, and so forth?
I know this will be anathema, but...
Having traveled Germany during 2 tours, and had side trips to Holland, Belgium, France, Austria, Switzerland, Poland, and Spain,
and had beer in all those places
and having had military Class VI (Booze) stores that carried beer from around the world
and having tasted my fair share at a variety of social, sociable, and so so events,
I have concluded that the best malt beverage is in our own backyard
I enjoyed Little Kings Cream Ale more than any of the others.
2d best is Franziskaner Hefe-Weisse Dunkel
For want of a preposition, the kingdom is obscured.
I don't care if you pray to me or not, Mrs. D. It has no bearing on anything in my life, but it does negatively impact yours. And I wouldn't want to encourage that kind of error. I have no power over you regarding your salvation. Nor does Mary nor anyone else.
Pray to God for me, if you are so moved, and I'm happy to return the favor.
That's what "I pray you, dear Dr. Eckleburg, please pray to the Lord for me, a sinner" MEANS, y'know!
Oh, him! We call him +Ελλουnτ Ο Τρελος on account of his strange fixation on casseroles and Patriarchal public suppers.
Read my post above a couple above yours. Everyone before the reformation believed this. Even Martin Luther did.
Words of Martin Luther “Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. “
“It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin”
“The woman in Tribulation, Revelation has no possibility of being Mary.”
And why not? The Woman is clearly pregnant with the Messiah. “She brought forth a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne. . . .” A woman brought forth a Child, not Isreal, not a Church, a Woman, Mary.
The Bible begins with a real man (Adam), a real woman (Eve), and a real serpent (the devil) — and it also ends with a real man (Jesus, the Last Adam [1 Cor. 15:45]), a real woman (Mary, the New Eve [Rev. 11:19-12:2]), and a real serpent (the devil of old). All of this was foretold in Genesis 3:15.
Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant - The stone tablets of the law — the word of God inscribed on stone
Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant - The body of Jesus Christ — the word of God in the flesh
Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant - The urn filled with manna from the wilderness — the miraculous bread come down from heaven
Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant - The womb containing Jesus, the bread of life come down from heaven (John 6:41)
Inside the Ark of the Old Covenant -The rod of Aaron that budded to prove and defend the true high priest
Inside Mary, Ark of the New Covenant -The actual and eternal High Priest Jesus
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