Posted on 10/25/2007 9:24:05 AM PDT by NYer
“Actually, don’t we have to say that Adam and Eve were born without sin? So would that make at least three exceptions to Paul’s blanket statement?”
The Bible verses don’t say ‘born into sin’. They say none are without sin, no, not one.
The only exception is Jesus. :*)
Thank you for your enthusiasm about your beliefs! It is obvious you believe very deeply, and I thank you for sharing your joy. :-)
You know, I’m not sure if Laura converted, but I do know she is a staunch Catholic now. Laura interned with Justice Clarence Thomas, who at one time attended a Catholic Seminary.
It’s been debated that much of Justice Thomas’ conservative world views have been influenced by his Catholic faith. In his recent autobiography, Thomas talks about how the Nuns instilled in him the thought that all are equal in God’s eyes and that the Nuns were very instumental in encouraging him in his early dreams and aspirations.
IMHO pillut48 may be off topic, but seems cordial. On the other hand SecretAgentMan has the venom of the Serpent, and I now realize that posting to him was an error.
I also think that dissing the moderator is a good way to get zotted. A word to the wise.
I was unclear, sorry. I meant that he did not cease to exist at the crucifixion, but merely ended his life on earth.
Whew! Thought I had missed a really big piece of theology there for a minute! :-)
I’m just tired of every Catholic topic thread turning into the same old “Why do you pray to statues” and “Why do you worship Mary?” and “Why do you have to have an intercessor?”
How many times have these questions come up? Every single time there is a Catholic topic thread. I wouldn’t mind genuine non-Catholic curiosity, but it goes on and on and always the same questions.
Please. This information is all over the internet. Nobody needs to find it on a Padre Pio thread. As I said above, my daughter had an extensive correspondence with one of his biographers, a priest who knew him, and it would have been nice to have a great FReeper discussion about him, but noooooooo.
This is my say. I’ve said it. Good night all. I’ll go read something else.
To adumbrate, I'll say this: While the world mocks us for the gloomy doctrine of original sin, I found it to be good news. "Well, no WONDER, I'm such a jerk!" said I.
So that's the gift Paul gave to me. Not only am I a jerk, but so are you. We're jerks and we're surrounded by jerks! That's the best we can do, by ourselves. So we must expect the treatment jerks deserve and jerks give to one another, but in our rare moments of clarity, we can try to be as kind as sinners can be. (For me such moments are very rare.)
So, having the problem of my self-hatred resolved so effectively by Paul's writings\ (that is, the intellectual problem is solved, I am still at war within myself and can only appeal - when I think of it - to the Divine Mercy), I am, I think realizing what Paul meant to convey to his readers. He's not talking about every single human everywhere. He's talking about us. The immaculate conception is irrelevant to what Paul is saying to those fractious churches to whom he is writing.
That's what I mean when I say he's not a theologian. He's not exercising the kind of careful, lawyerly precision of language we expect of theologians. He's saying "Every one of you -- and me too, we're all jerks! And thanks be to God, He knows it and he's done what jerks need!" It's miles away from all the whereases and provided thats of technical language.
Okay. I'm spent. Prayers and then bed. And yes, I will say one of my fave hymns to the Virgin, but the majority will be addressed to the Father.
Your search is gift from God. God will give himself and has given himself as the conclusive gift.
Whoa. :*(
What a great blessing for your daughter and for you! I visited San Giovanni Rotondo on a pilgrimage, and coincidentally, after the pilgrimage, met someone who had been healed by Padre Pio’s intervention.
Yes, the whole thing was very moving for her; but she has kept the correspondence private so far...
The priest has since died, and she is so grateful for the time she was able to correspond.
FReegards,
Judy
When did you go on a pilgrimage to San Giovanni Rotondo? After reading Ruffin’s book, I was convinced I would like to go on a pilgrimage there.
Again, to have first hand knowledge and correspondence with someone who knew Padre Pio is such a blessing.
You're conflating two verses there. One is St. Paul citing the old testament "none is righteous, no, not one", and another is a passage where he says that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God".
In neither case does he explicitly exempt Jesus, which tells me that he's speaking hyperbolically, not with mathematical precision.
The point, in context, is (1) Nobody is righteous enough to get to God on his own; and (2) therefore, everyone needs a savior, whom God has provided in Jesus.
Mary is not exempt from either of those two constraints. Her holiness and her salvation are the fruits of grace which her Son won at the Cross. In that sense, she's like everyone else.
We’ve been through this already on this thread. We don’t need to go there again, thank you.
I just got here.
So do you pray to saints?
Reference post 259: I rest my case.
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