Posted on 01/26/2008 7:47:14 AM PST by Ottofire
SAN GIOVANNI ROTONDO, Italy (CNS) -- The body of St. Padre Pio will be exhumed, studied and displayed for public veneration from mid-April to late September, said the archbishop who oversees the shrine where the saint is buried.
Archbishop Domenico D'Ambrosio, papal delegate for the shrine in San Giovanni Rotondo, announced Jan. 6 that he and the Capuchin friars of Padre Pio's community had decided it was important to verify the condition of the saint's body and find a way to ensure its preservation.
"It is my personal conviction and that of the confreres of St. Pio that we have an obligation to give the generations that will come after us the possibility of venerating and preserving in the best possible way the mortal remains of St. Pio," Archbishop D'Ambrosio said.
"A further motive for rejoicing," he said, stems from the fact that the Capuchins, with Vatican approval, "have authorized the exposition and public veneration of the saint's body for several months beginning in mid-April."
In addition to marking the 40th anniversary of Padre Pio's death Sept. 23, 1968, the public veneration of his remains also will coincide with the 90th anniversary of the day on which he was believed to have received the stigmata, bloody wounds recalling the crucifixion wounds of Jesus.
According to the Capuchins, Padre Pio received the stigmata Sept. 20, 1918.
Immediately after Archbishop D'Ambrosio announced the exhumation of Padre Pio's body, Italian newspapers and television stations began reporting that members of his family were opposed to the move and were threatening to sue the archbishop and the Capuchins.
But a spokesman for the family denied the rumors and Archbishop D'Ambrosio told Avvenire, the Italian Catholic daily newspaper, that he had been in contact with the family and they raised no objections.
Padre Pio was born Francesco Forgione May 25, 1887, in Pietrelcina, Italy. As a Capuchin, he was a famed confessor and preacher and had a widespread reputation as one whose prayers were effective in procuring miraculous cures. Pope John Paul II beatified him in 1999 and canonized him in 2002.
Let's see. Standard disclaimer, Old Testament. Moses, snakebites, bronze serpent. That constitutes a miraculous physical object, eh??
And of course, the real meaning of the phrase you quote is the part you left off, about worshipping the objects themselves. NO Catholic icon is worshipped in and of itself, it is simply a reminder of the specific manifestation of Christ or one of his "agents" (i.e. the Virgin Mary), and ALWAYS leads directly to God.
Indeed, probably some un-educated Catholics, having been badly catechized, fall into superstition--but that is NEVER the teaching of the Church, and never has been.
60 posted on 01/27/2008 4:56:16 PM MST by Wonder Warthog
It is blasphemous for man to claim YHvH's right to create a physical image I do not find any reference to your "real meaning" in Deuteronomy 4. You are commanded not act corruptly and make a graven image in any form. It is repeated again for clarification in verse 23. YHvH commanded the construction of the bronze serpent on the stake as a
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua
foreshadowing metaphor of Yah'shua dying on a stake for the covering of our sins.
when it has been specifically prohibited to man in the Word of Elohim.
shouldnt they be drawer folks away from Christ?
Well I'm sorry but YOU miss the point...
Jesus says there are many Christs out there...And they appear as angels of light and they minister to people
Luk 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Jesus had no interest in dead people...He says let the unsaved people mess with the dead bodies...
You have to be sure that the 'Christ' who leads you to dig up the dead is 'Jesus' Christ...And any Christ can call himself Jesus...
No, i didnt miss your point, which, as in most of your posts, involve cherry picking scripture to buttress your non biblical, ‘scripture alone’ concept of Christ, Me and my Bible.
How in the world can you continue to say that something as verifiable as incorruptile saints, WHO ARE SAINTS DUE TO THEIR HEROIC CHRISTIAN VIRTUE, are not of Christ?
These saints who turn the eyes of ordinary people to the truth of Christ, NOT ANYONE WHO CALLS THEMSELVES CHRIST, not any imitators, not any fakes, but toward Christ Jesus, is somehow of satan?
Where is your proof that anyone, anywhere at anytime, has viewed the incorrupted bodies of Christs heroes, who are alive in him now. have turned AWAY FROM CHRIST????
Deuteronomy is obviously referring the the Ten Commandments, and the prohibition about WORSHIP of images. It is the WORSHIP aspect that is "acting corruptly", not the making of an image, per se.
According to "Elohim's word," his son has abolished death. (2 Timothy 1:10) What part of "abolished" isn't clear?
2 Kings 13:21.
Oh c'mon now...That's the feeble line you guys always use when someone straightens you out with the word of God...
Luk 9:59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Luk 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
Jesus says get your eyes off the dead people and get your eyes of the Kingdom of God...You can't deal with it, that's your problem, not mine...
If you can find another application for that verse, let's hear it...
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
The flesh is sinful...No way is God going to preserve someone's sinful flesh to use for a 'sign' to a bunch of Gentiles...And if you don't know that, it's because the word of God is meaningless to you...
Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
How in the world can you continue to say that something as verifiable as incorruptile saints, WHO ARE SAINTS DUE TO THEIR HEROIC CHRISTIAN VIRTUE, are not of Christ?
Heroic Christian Virtue will not get anyone to heaven...
These saints who turn the eyes of ordinary people to the truth of Christ, NOT ANYONE WHO CALLS THEMSELVES CHRIST, not any imitators, not any fakes, but toward Christ Jesus, is somehow of satan?
And how do you know??? The bible says many Christs shall arise, and no doubt they will all call themselves Jesus...How do you know you or anyone else has the 'right' Jesus???
Where is your proof that anyone, anywhere at anytime, has viewed the incorrupted bodies of Christs heroes, who are alive in him now. have turned AWAY FROM CHRIST????
Never said anyone would quit following Christ...And Satan doesn't want you to quit following Christ...Quite the contrary...He wants you to follow Jesus Christ...He wants you to follow the wrong Jesus Christ...
YOU:
Oh c’mon now...That’s the feeble line you guys always use when someone straightens you out with the word of God...
ME: no it isnt, because, as you well know, Satan himself knows the scriptures, and perhaps he is using you when you cherry pick verses????
YOU:
Luk 9:59 And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Luk 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.
ME: none of those refer to my posting of the incorruptibles, those refer plainly to Christ gathering those to him to follow him and the gospel, he says nothing at all about His ability to perform miracles of leaving a body intact, free of decay.
It is your bias against that, that causes you to choose this verse.
YOU:
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
The flesh is sinful...No way is God going to preserve someone’s sinful flesh to use for a ‘sign’ to a bunch of Gentiles...And if you don’t know that, it’s because the word of God is meaningless to you...
ME: Christ is not saying the flesh is sinful, that is heresy, similar to Valentinian Gnosticism, which believed that flesh, being matter was sinful and Christ couldnt have been part of sinful flesh...etc.
Being weak through the flesh doesnt make the flesh, mere matter, sinful.
YOU: Heroic Christian Virtue will not get anyone to heaven...
ME: Really? that is What christ calls us to in the gospel.
YOU
(ME)These saints who turn the eyes of ordinary people to the truth of Christ, NOT ANYONE WHO CALLS THEMSELVES CHRIST, not any imitators, not any fakes, but toward Christ Jesus, is somehow of satan?
YOU:
And how do you know??? The bible says many Christs shall arise, and no doubt they will all call themselves Jesus...How do you know you or anyone else has the ‘right’ Jesus???
ME: because we are not talking about any incorruptible saints suddenly rising from the dead and calling themselves The Christ. We are talking about Christ preserving, miraculously, the bodies of his beloved saints.
And that causes many people to follow the one Christ Jesus, the same Christ who was crucified, Died, and rose three days later.
Im not sure which Christ you seem to think Satan would have me follow, and how these incorrupted saints cause anything like that.
Deuteronomy is obviously referring the the Ten Commandments, and the prohibition about WORSHIP of images. It is the WORSHIP aspect that is "acting corruptly", not the making of an image, per se.
64 posted on 01/28/2008 8:14:06 AM MST by Wonder Warthog
YHvH wrote Deuteronomy 4:16 and 4:23 for your understanding. Why do you reject the plain Word of Elohim ? NAsbU John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.Why do you derogate the plain text of the Word of Elohim
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua
in order to create pagan graven images ?
According to "Elohim's word," his son has abolished death. (2 Timothy 1:10) What part of "abolished" isn't clear?
You seem to come from the Bill Clinton school of theology.
Unquestionably.
"Why do you reject the plain Word of Elohim ?"
I don't.
"NAsbU John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
And this statement is why. Last I heard, there were no COMMANDMENTS in Deuteronomy. The COMMANDMENT involved is about WORSHIPPING images, not painting pictures.
XS>NAsbU Deuteronomy 4:16 so that you do not act corruptly and make a graven image for yourselves in the form of any figure, the likeness of male or female,.....
XS>"NAsbU John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
And this statement is why. Last I heard, there were no COMMANDMENTS in Deuteronomy. The COMMANDMENT involved is about WORSHIPPING images, not painting pictures.
71 posted on 01/28/2008 10:37:55 AM MST by Wonder Warthog
Or is it invincibly ignorant ? A simple google of Deuteronomy would tell you otherwise. It is patently clear you are ignorant of the Holy Word of Elohim. YHvH will hold you accountable for knowing His Word, How incredibly ignorant !
b'SHEM Yah'shua
if you claim to be a follower of the Christ.
2 Kings 13:21.
see #38.
You will notice that they didn’t bring Elisha’s remains out of the grave. Handling the dead was commanded as unclean by the Law, so they buried the dead, and...left...them...there. The only REBURIAL I can recall is the relocating of Joseph’s bones from Egypt to Canaan.
These well preserved corpses seem to require ideal conditions (although some methods vary). Were these long dead bodies, that the RC/EO have chosen to bring out of the grave, buried in pine boxes in warm, moist, earthworm inhabited soil? Here, in western IL, the old cemetaries that don’t have vaults are a pain to mow; very uneven, bounce around (a friend used to maintain one).
How about a well preserved 2,000 yr old Chinese woman:
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200207/24/eng20020724_100273.shtml
Go dig up more corpses on google, it’s much easier, and cleaner too.
You people want to have things to point to Jesus Christ, try this: Be born again, then be walking epistles, read of men. It’s the changed life. The separation from worldliness. It’s the walking, talking, blameless saint of God that is a living testamony of Jesus Christ. The Holy Ghost leads and guides into all truth, convicts of sinful behavior.
In my case, friends saw that I left behind the night clubs, the cursing, the nearly naked public beaches, etc., because the Holy Ghost leads one away from worldliness. Moses esteemed the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures of Egypt. It’s still that way (regardless what greedy ‘megachurch’ ministers preach).
I realize that conceding any church tradition or practice as wrong/ungodly is opening the door to the possiblity of other ungodly/disobedient practices, so I don’t expect any admissions of foolish traditions from your church.
I broke my silence and came back to this vain babbling thread, and still pronouce your church’s practice as morbid (now I feel I must ask God to forgive me for spending time on this foolish subject).
It is very good that you left the night clubs and the cursing; the next step in your growth should be not mocking what you don’t understand. If you personally don’t feel like venerating a relic, don’t venerate it.
Not at all. They are typically placed in pine boxes in crypts. If they're going to decay, then they will. the only "ideal conditions" come from God.
Read up a bit and relieve your ignorance.
Not really. Just away from my references. But guess what, I checked in Deuteronomy, found the COMMANDMENT, and it says EXACTLY what I said it does about not WORSHIPPING images
So, what's better, to have been somewhat ignorant, or to have been a liar.
Keep spitting in the face of YHvH with yourshalom b'SHEM Yah'shua
Jesuitical parsing of venerate/worship.Keep building your pagan graven images.
One day you will have to convince YHvH
that he is wrong and you are right.
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