Posted on 02/01/2008 2:00:52 PM PST by NYer
.- For the first time in 70 years, the bishops of the Greek-Catholic Church of Ukraine were able to pay a visit to the tomb of St. Peter and to meet with his successor, Pope Benedict XVI.
“You are welcome, dear brothers, in this house in which intense and incessant prayers have always been said for the beloved Greek-Catholic Church of Ukraine," the Pope told the bishops.
The ‘ad limina’ visit comes after years of limited freedom for the Greek-Catholic Church.
"Now that your Churches have rediscovered their complete freedom", the Pope said, "you are here to represent your communities, reborn and vibrant in the faith, which have never ceased to feel their full communion with Peter's Successor.”
Benedict XVI praised the prelates' "generous efforts and tireless testimony" in their dealings "with your people and the Church", reminding them that in their missionary and pastoral duties "priests are of indispensable assistance". Hence, the Pope invited the bishops to ensure that priests, "in the various initiatives of 'aggiornamento' (a term from Vatican II referring to “updating”), do not follow the novelties of the world but present society with the responses that only Christ can give to the hopes for justice and peace in the human heart".
The Holy Father also called upon the bishops to seek out collaboration with the Latin rite bishops in their country to provide priests with courses of spiritual exercises, formation and theological and pastoral renewal. “It cannot be denied that such collaboration between the two rites would lead to greater harmony of heart among those who serve the one Church,” the Pope said.
"I am certain that, with such an inward attitude, any misunderstandings will be more easily resolved, in the awareness that both rites belong to the one Catholic community and that both have full and equal citizenship in the one Ukrainian people", he added. In this context, the Pope recommended that the Greek-rite prelates "meet regularly, for example one a year, with the Latin bishops".
The Holy Father then went on to consider the difficulties faced by Ukrainian bishops "as regards the responsible obedience of male and female religious, and their co-operation in the needs of the Church. With the magnanimity of pastors and the patience of fathers, exhort these brothers and sisters tirelessly to defend the 'non-secular' nature of their vocation" and "faithfully to observe their vows ... so they can provide the Church with the particular testimony that is asked of them".
Turning to the topic of ecumensim, the Pope noted that "real and objective obstacles persist. However", he said, "it is important not to lose heart in the face of the difficulties, but to continue along the journey that began with prayer and patient charity".
"Before anything else, what must be promoted is the ecumenism of love" which, "accompanied by coherent actions, creates trust and causes hearts and eyes to open. By its nature, charity promotes and illuminates the dialogue of truth," he said.
Benedict XVI concluded his talk by giving thanks to God "for the rebirth of Your Church after the dramatic period of persecution. On this occasion I feel the need to assure you (bishops) that the Pope carries you all in his heart, he accompanies you affectionately and supports you in your difficult mission".
What a joyous occasion for them all!
The Ukrainian Catholics have kept their faith, despite intense persecution by both the Tsars and the Communists. Their fidelity should be an inspiration to us all.
“The Holy Father also called upon the bishops to seek out collaboration with the Latin rite bishops in their country to provide priests with courses of spiritual exercises, formation and theological and pastoral renewal. “It cannot be denied that such collaboration between the two rites would lead to greater harmony of heart among those who serve the one Church,” the Pope said.
“I am certain that, with such an inward attitude, any misunderstandings will be more easily resolved, in the awareness that both rites belong to the one Catholic community and that both have full and equal citizenship in the one Ukrainian people”, he added. In this context, the Pope recommended that the Greek-rite prelates “meet regularly, for example one a year, with the Latin bishops”.”
Odd comment to make to a sui juris church. What do you suppose this is about? I had heard that there were rumblings coming out of Ukraine about breaking with Rome if the Greek Catholic Church there isn’t given autocephallous status. Is this +BXVI’s way of keeping an eye on or controling +Lyubomir?
Perhaps it is to promote greater Unity rather than disunity. Unity among West and East, hmmmmm, an interestintg concept. Perhaps others should consider the Pope’s words.
Pax Domine Christi
“Perhaps it is to promote greater Unity rather than disunity. Unity among West and East, hmmmmm, an interesting concept.”
What business does the Latin Rite have being in Ukraine? It seems to me that the very presence of Latin Rite bishops in the Ukraine, whom the Greek Catholic Uniates have no been directed to meet with can only point of the anomolous positions of both the Latins and the Greek Catholics within the canonical jurisdiction of the MP. That to me can only discourage unity. Unless of course the orders to +Lyubomir were in fact to persuade him to “submit” to Rome. Its not like that hasn’t been done before. Or, perhaps, since +Lyubomir is not the most predictable and obedient of hierarchs, +BXVI may be trying to keep +Lyubomir from self destructing along with his church by a foolish declaration that he is a patriarch, which would likely mean his immediate excommunication...and of course Orthodoxy would have nothing to do with the man. Actually that might be a good thing as far as Rome and Orthodoxy are concerned.
Anyway, there may be another lesson about Rome here for Orthodoxy.
By the way, unity is a fine thing. When the Pope decides he can exercise the Petrine Ministry in as Orthodox manner as he usually preaches theology we may actually make some progress, though I doubt any of us will live to see actual reunion. For now the Latin lower clergy and laity understand far too little about Orthodoxy to make it work. In the meantime, the fractures within the Latin church make reunion with Orthodoxy a dicey thing for the Orthodox churches.
The Schism is nearly over.
Praise God that it will happen in my time.
I'm sure you know there were Latin-Rite Catholic "holdovers" left from when the Ukrainian and Polish lived in the same country.
“I’m sure you know there were Latin-Rite Catholic “holdovers” left from when the Ukrainian and Polish lived in the same country.”
Nope, didn’t know that. Many of them? If there is an active Latin Rite presence in Ukraine, why is there still a Greek Catholic entity, seeing as the Austrian royalty which insisted on its creation is long since dead and buried?
“Latins” are members of the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) in Ukraine, whose hierarchical structures in the past were spread over those Ukrainian lands that became incorporated into neighboring nations where Roman Catholics were in the majority. After these territories were incorporated into the USSR, the Soviet power liquidated the diocesan network of the Roman (Latin) Catholics, deporting and repressing a significant portion of its clergy and faithful. Only about one hundred parishes remained under the severe government control. Now the RCC in Ukraine has 4 dioceses and 1 apostolic administrature (in Transcarpathia), 9 bishops, 38 monasteries with 262 monks and nuns, 408 priests (of whom 278 are foreign citizens), 674 churches (with a further 65 being built), 772 communities, of which more than half are located in the central regions (Vinnyts’kiy, Khmel’nyts’kiy, Zhytomyr and Kyiv). The number of faithful is not clear. Depending on different estimates there could be as few as 200,000 or as many as 800,000.
K, the world has expanded; nationalism is rapidly disappearing. People move from one country to another. We saw earlier this week how Polish immigrants to Norway are 'growing' the demand for more Catholic priests. Are you suggesting that Latin Rite Catholics living in the Ukraine have no right to request their own priests? You already know the history of eastern immigrants to the US who requested their own priests.
One might just as easily ask what right the Orthodox have being in Italy, or having a Metropolitan of Vienna . . . why is that, with certain groups, ecumenism always seems to be a one-way street?
You wrote:
“What business does the Latin Rite have being in Ukraine?”
What right do the Eastern Orthodox churches have being anywhere in the world other than in traditionally Orthodox countries?
Oh, that’s right - they sent priests and bishops to where their people have moved. And we have too. Hundreds of thousands of German and Polish LATIN RITE Catholics were shipped all over the USSR by Stalin. We are simply going where our people are.
It amazes me how so many Eastern Orthodox go nuts over Catholics in their midst while ignoring that they themselves are in traditionally non-Eastern Orthodox countries and don’t think about it twice.
“What right do the Eastern Orthodox churches have being anywhere in the world other than in traditionally Orthodox countries?”
and
“It amazes me how so many Eastern Orthodox go nuts over Catholics in their midst while ignoring that they themselves are in traditionally non-Eastern Orthodox countries and don’t think about it twice.”
Well, the Pope has discarded his title of Patriarch of the West and in any case his canonical territory wouldn’t extend beyond Western Europe. The barbarian lands were left to the EP, as I am sure you will remember....
As a practical, as opposed to canonical, matter, however, you are of course absolutely right, Vlad! Its sort of hard to say what I said without at least a little milk coming out of my nose! :)
P, you know what says the most to me? This:
“38 monasteries with 262 monks and nuns”
You wrote:
“Well, the Pope has discarded his title of Patriarch of the West...”
Are you sure? I thought he merely didn’t bring it up. :)
“... and in any case his canonical territory wouldn’t extend beyond Western Europe.”
It extends to wherever Catholics are just as the canonical jurisdiction of the Eastern Orthodox churches apparently extends all to way to Argentina to take care of Ukrainian Orthodox!
“The barbarian lands were left to the EP, as I am sure you will remember....”
Sorry, but that seems to be a point to no where since the EP could do little after a certain point in time.
“As a practical, as opposed to canonical, matter, however, you are of course absolutely right, Vlad! Its sort of hard to say what I said without at least a little milk coming out of my nose! :)”
Yes, of course I am right. And it isn’t just about practicality. The simple fact is there is no logical reason for the Orthdox to carp about Catholic priests and bishops serving CATHOLICS in traditionally Orthodox lands when NO ONE in the Catholic Church says zip about the Eastern Orthodox serving their people in Catholic or Protestant lands.
So why is it that the EOs make such a fuss? Seriously, now. Why? Is it some paranoia? An inferiority complex? Or just nastiness on their part? Which is it? What else could it be? (and it isn’t because of practical or canonical reasons either)
“Why? Is it some paranoia? An inferiority complex? Or just nastiness on their part?”
It depends on where the complaints are coming from. As a practical matter, the only real complaints about “poaching” come, ultimately, from Russia, or Russian influenced converts. In the case of the Russian Church, I think its all three of your suggestions and a very serious canonical issue about the jurisdiction of the bishops of particular churches.
Hard as it is to put aside the reality of the paranoia, inferiority complex and nastiness, the truth is that to the extent that the Orthodox Churches and the Roman Catholic Church actually recognize each other as full expressions of The Church, then canonical jurisdiction, as established by the Pre-Schism Ecumenical Councils becomes extremely important. In those areas about which the Councils didn’t speak, its open season I suppose, in the sense that no one particular church has any intrinsic claim on such regions.
The truth is, however, that Rome does not believe that the fullness of The Church is found in Orthodoxy nor does Orthodoxy believe that it is found in Roman Catholicism. We believe almost everything in common and our praxis is almost totally the same as is our ecclesiologies, but they aren’t exactly the same and in the differences, especially I think in the eccesiologies, one finds why communion now is impossible. If communion is impossible and the Orthodox Churches believe Rome is in some fashion deficient and the feeling is mutual, then there is no reason at all to be concerned about poaching anywhere.
But we are all concerned about, even if that concern only extends, as likely it does, to the delicate sensitivities of the MP. It simply isn’t an issue in the West. The Western Europe, for better or worse (I think worse by the way), is used to religious pluralism for some pretty horrific historical reasons. Russia (pretty much Russia alone though one could argue that Greece and Serbia have been unfriendly to religious pluralism, meaning accepting the presence of Roman Catholic churches) isn’t. The Arab and African Christian worlds are used to pluralism for their own historical reasons. North America is, well, North America. Again, for better or for worse, that Russian sensitivity has to be accepted if Rome, and for that matter, Constantinople, Antioch and Alexandria, are really interested in a reunion. Russia, Greece, Serbia, the Arabs and the Africans, the Orthodox in America and Australia and Asia are all in different places from Rome on a reunion. But Vlad, nothing will move any faster, in the end, than Moscow and everyone knows it whether they like it or not, whether it is right or not.
The only way to make the problems of, or faced by, the Latin and Uniate Churches in the canonical territory of the MP “go away” right now is to accept permanent hostility from Moscow and no reunion with Orthodoxy.
It's a carry over from the past when nationalism prevailed. We now live in a world where people relocate to all parts of the globe. I was quite surprised to learn that there are large congregations of Maronite Catholics in Mexico and South Africa! Large enough to have their own bishops. The same is true for the Orthodox Church.
What, the shrinking of religious vocations?
You wrote:
“It depends on where the complaints are coming from. As a practical matter, the only real complaints about “poaching” come, ultimately, from Russia, or Russian influenced converts.”
I agree, but we aren’t talking about “poaching” at all. The Germans and Poles were always Catholics. If the pope wants to send a Catholic bishop to German and Polish Catholics in Siberia (where they exiled) how is that poaching? Granted, Russians will come along to the Catholic Church too, no doubt, but overall, the Latin Rite efforts in Russia, Ukrain, the “Stans”, etc. are mostly about churching Catholics and not about poaching. And again, where are the Western bishops complaining about poaching on the part of EOs in Western Europe, the Americas, Australia, etc.? There really are no such complaints - at least not anywhere near what we hear from the East.
“In the case of the Russian Church, I think its all three of your suggestions and a very serious canonical issue about the jurisdiction of the bishops of particular churches.”
Okay, Fair enough.
“Hard as it is to put aside the reality of the paranoia, inferiority complex and nastiness, the truth is that to the extent that the Orthodox Churches and the Roman Catholic Church actually recognize each other as full expressions of The Church, then canonical jurisdiction, as established by the Pre-Schism Ecumenical Councils becomes extremely important. In those areas about which the Councils didn’t speak, its open season I suppose, in the sense that no one particular church has any intrinsic claim on such regions.”
But aren’t we really talking about people and not regions? How can the MP claim jurisdiction outside Russia if we are really just talking about regions? Yet he claims sway over thousands of parishes outside Russia.
“The truth is, however, that Rome does not believe that the fullness of The Church is found in Orthodoxy nor does Orthodoxy believe that it is found in Roman Catholicism. We believe almost everything in common and our praxis is almost totally the same as is our ecclesiologies, but they aren’t exactly the same and in the differences, especially I think in the eccesiologies, one finds why communion now is impossible. If communion is impossible and the Orthodox Churches believe Rome is in some fashion deficient and the feeling is mutual, then there is no reason at all to be concerned about poaching anywhere.”
But there is concern about poaching even though both communions see the other as deficient, but that concern is almost entirely in ONE direction again.
“But we are all concerned about, even if that concern only extends, as likely it does, to the delicate sensitivities of the MP. It simply isn’t an issue in the West. The Western Europe, for better or worse (I think worse by the way), is used to religious pluralism for some pretty horrific historical reasons. Russia (pretty much Russia alone though one could argue that Greece and Serbia have been unfriendly to religious pluralism, meaning accepting the presence of Roman Catholic churches) isn’t. The Arab and African Christian worlds are used to pluralism for their own historical reasons. North America is, well, North America. Again, for better or for worse, that Russian sensitivity has to be accepted if Rome, and for that matter, Constantinople, Antioch and Alexandria, are really interested in a reunion. Russia, Greece, Serbia, the Arabs and the Africans, the Orthodox in America and Australia and Asia are all in different places from Rome on a reunion. But Vlad, nothing will move any faster, in the end, than Moscow and everyone knows it whether they like it or not, whether it is right or not.”
True. I have always thought Russia was key. And to make that all the more difficult, the ROC is, much like the Catholic Church and there is that little problem of, “Those who differ little always seem to differ most.”
“The only way to make the problems of, or faced by, the Latin and Uniate Churches in the canonical territory of the MP “go away” right now is to accept permanent hostility from Moscow and no reunion with Orthodoxy.”
That’s why I think only a supernatural event will heal the schism. I hear vodka helps too. :)
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