Posted on 06/10/2008 10:10:18 AM PDT by dangus
What do you mean by allegory?
The phrase "three days and three nights" is a Hebrew idiom which means a portion of time covering roughly what we would think of as three days.
In Luke 24 is the post-resurrection account of Jesus walking with the disciples after His resurrection. We are told that it was the first day of the week (v. 1), and we are also told in that account that "it was the third day" after the events in Jerusalem beginning with the trial and crucifixion (v. 21).
Using this set of facts, the Hebrews of Jesus’ day would have understood Friday as the first day, Saturday as the second day, and Sunday as the third day.
Since Christ fulfilled the law, the law is no longer in effect. This is made clear by many passages of Scripture.
“What do you mean by allegory?”
You cannot get teh specific three days and threes nights as prophsied by Jesus (Matt 12:39-40) with a Friday afternoon burial. Can’t happen. He rose before sunrise on Sunday.
“What do you mean by allegory?”
Allegory is a form of extended metaphor, in which objects, persons, and actions in a narrative, are equated with the meanings that lie outside the narrative itself. The underlying meaning has moral, social, religious, or political significance, and characters are often personifications of abstract ideas as charity, greed, or envy.
Thus an allegory is a story with two meanings, a literal meaning and a symbolic meaning.
Where do *I* begin?
You cite the Peshitta as the most ancient Aramaic text. The implication would be that being so ancient, it’s authoritative. But the NEW TESTAMENT Peshitta is a back-translation that’s centuries older than the OT Peshitta. Did you know that? Did you know that “Sabbath” has come to mean, simply, “week”?
>> “First of the Sabbaths” means the first 7th day sabbath during the count of the Omer...<<
I’d like to see a citation for that, because the phrase “mia ton Sabbaton” (or any variation) does NOT exist in the Greek Old Testament.
>> ... which begins on the 16th Nisan, the day after the “High Sabbath” of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (15th Nisan). <<
In fact, it’s the SEVENTH day after the Feast of the unleavened bread which is called a Sabbath: “On the seventh day is a holy convocation {Sabbath}; you shall not do any laborious work.” Of course, that Sabbath actually IS a Saturday.
And your translation makes ahash out of 1 Cor 16:2, since it would be something which takes place only once per year.
And if you reject the notion that Sabbath often means week, how do you explain Luke 18:12? “I fast twice every Saturday”??? What, he fasts between breakfast and lunch, and then between lunch and dinner?
And why would Mark 16:1 say, “When the Sabbath was over?”
According to this calendar translator...
http://www.abdicate.net/cal.aspx
Herod died in 4BC
According to Daniel 9, Messiah would arrive 483 after Xerxes declaration, resulting in ~26AD, and He preached for three and one half years...~29AD.
15th of Nisan in 30AD, Jewish Calendar 3790, (and also in 26AD, Jewish year 3787, though this follows prophetic dates less accurately, according to Daniel 9) was on a Thursday!
That would have been a special “High” Sabbath, beginning on Wednesday evening ant sunset.
Then the following Saturday would have been another Sabbath.
Hence the translation of Matthew 28:1 as plural Sabbaths is very likely and points to a probable Wednesday crucifixion.
Hmmm...revising my thinking here~
Wednesday is the day of preparation and Crucifixion.
Christ in the earth Wednesday before Sunset.
Factoring that the Jewish day begins and ends with the sunset...
Dusk Wednesday to dawn Thursday is the first full night.
Dawn Thursday to dusk Thursday is the first full day.
Dusk Thursday to dawn Friday is the second full night.
Dawn Friday to dusk Friday is the second fullday.
Dusk Friday to dawn Saturday.is the third full night.
Dawn Saturday to dusk Saturday is the third full day.
Some time after dusk Saturday and before dawn Sunday, He is risen.
That math works!
So if we count a partial day as a “day” then a Thursday crucifixion is possible, though there are no “high” sabbaths on Fridays on or around Jewish year 3789.
If the translation requires a day or night to be a “full” day/night, then the Wednesday crucifixion absolutely fits for either
14Nisan 3787, or Wednesday April 7, 27AD (resurrection on 18 Nisan 3787, or April 11, 30AD)
14 Nisan, 3790, or Wednesday April 3, 30AD (resurrection on 18 Nisan, 30AD April 7, 30AD)
What a blessing this thread has been for me.
..and I hope, to ohters as well.
But the NEW TESTAMENT Peshitta is a back-translation that’s centuries older than the OT Peshitta.
(of course, I meant to say it’s centuries newer.)
I am not an ignorant fool, first of all, I just want you to know that. I will protect my children and family above all. When All I heard in while I was in the prophecy seminar was Jesus, Jesus, Jesus and God has his children in all congregations. I asked my kids every night afterwards what they learned, and it was all Jesus, Jesus, Jesus. I personally know my coworker and his wife. They are not cultists. His wife led the childrens portion. If I felt at all that my wife and I or my children were being subjected to any funny business, we would have been out of there in a heart beat. Trust me.
Without getting into a huge debate or discussion, yes we are no longer judged solely by the law. Old Testiment Saints were saved by thier sincere belief that God would send a Saviour, they did not keep the law perfectly, they couldn’t.
Christ did not abolish the law. The law is still held up to us as a mirror pointing out our sins. We must do our best to obey Gods law. We are free because of Christs sacrifice. I would like to see 1 passage that tells us to ignore the law, don’t worry about it, do what you want, it’s no longer in effect. Christ told us be perfect, as God is perfect.
Oh, please don’t think I regard you as a fool. It’s infinitely difficult ensuring your children’s salvation; when it happens, it’s a miracle given by God.
But there’s a nasty ctach: If SDA teaches that Sunday worship is pagan, then either one of two things are true:
1. It doesn’t matter, in which case what other pagan-y things are acceptable?
2. It matters, in which case real Christianity condemns most everyone I know, so maybe real Christianity is false.
Galatians 3:24-25 NKJV
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
The law was our tutor, or schoolmaster as it is translated in the KJV, and now we are no longer under that tutor.
Only if you apply a hermeneutical method that is very different from how they would have understood the phrase in the first century. This is quite apparent from the entire narrative, esp., as I have mentioned, from places like Luke 24.
Friday, Saturday, and Sunday is "three days and three might" for a first century Hebrew.
However, that text does not limit the purpose of the law to only that of a tutor to lead us to Christ for the believer.
"Oh, how I love Your law! It is my meditation all the day." (Psalm 119:97)
For the child of God, the law, when properly interpreted within the context of the new covenant, is our love and our delight.
No longer bound by it, yes. But required to follow it all the same. A disciple of Christ will want to follow Gods perfect law anyway. It is what the Holy Spirit does in our hearts when we are born again.
Thank you!
How are we to interpret the law within the context of the new covenant? What part of the law must we keep?
Yes, I am applying a hermeneutic approach by using an inductive method. This is a pr oven and appropriate method of study and examining what is being presented. This is not error and my observations have been within the context of the verses presented and the Jewish reckoning of days and nights that is still used to this very day and differs form our Gregorian reckoning, where days and nights are divided by Midnight on our clocks.
Kindly demonstrate exactly how three days and three nights can be gotten out of a pre-sunset Friday burial to a pre-sunrise Sunday resurrection.
Having re-read Luke 24 I find nothing contrary to my inductions. Even Luke says that when the women arrived a tthe tomb, early in the morning, He was laredy risen. So, please present the specific verses that substantiate your Friday crucifixion and specifically how it justifies the 3days/3nights. Jesus was quite specific in His prophecy, it would be expected that a Jew would understand and be able to see the specificity of fulfillment.
You have not made a clear case outside of general commentary and I am merely seeking for you present a more detailed explanation. because as it stands, you comment of what a first century Hebrew would know is not convincing ans is rather spurious.
aack...spelchek is yur frend.
sorry
Any part that has not been specifically abrogated or modified by something in the NT is still binding. E.g., it is still unlawful to have sex with your pet Labrador Retrieve even though the laws regarding bestiality are not repeated for us in the NT.
God does not need to stutter for us to know His perfect and holy law.
How modern Jews understand it is immaterial. How first century Jews understood it is what is important. The disciples declared to Jesus in Luke 24, "It is the third day", not "it is the fourth day" which is how you wish to read it. This harkens back to Jesus' words, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." Not four days, not two days.
Your contention seems to be that the disciples in Luke 24 could not count according to the common Hebrew reckoning of time in that day.
Yes, I am applying a hermeneutic approach by using an inductive method.
I have not seen any evidence of that. Where else have you looked in the Bible to get your definition of the meaning of the phrase "three days and three nights"? It appears to me that you have applied some modern theory of counting time that involves a day zero. The ancient world did not operate that way. They understood the first day, the second day, the third day. Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Rather simple.
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