[Gamecock]

From the article: I know not all Catholics would agree that this is a fair way of putting it, but I think that most Catholics would actually say the faith/works equation is accurate. Your faith and your works are what save you. I was raised Catholic and that’s what I was taught.

And that is consistent with what we hear around these parts. I'm going to see if I can find the companion metioned above piece for posting.

[Salvation]

And here's a look at the other side of the question/answer:

What does the Catholic Church mean by the phrase, "Outside the Church there is no salvation"

Christian, I Presume? (Salvation) [Ecumenical]

Rock Solid: The Salvation History of the Catholic Church [Ecumenical]

Who Can Be Saved?

Grace, Faith, and Works

Getting in Touch With Reality (good character and behavior as a ticket to Heaven)

My Personal Savior

The Early Church Fathers on Salvation Outside the Church [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

Extra ecclesiam - Outside the Church there is no salvation.

Is Faith Necessary for Salvation? (Part 2)

Good Will Equals Salvation? (Did the pope say non christians could be saved - part 1)

The Experience of the Salvation of Christ Today

Nonbelievers Too Can Be Saved, Says Pope

Worthy Is the Lamb?

Limbo and the Hope of Salvation

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[Claud]

I think the Council of Trent on this was clear on this:

CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.

BUT

CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.

http://history.hanover.edu/texts/trent/ct06.html

[DaveMSmith]

Matt 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven.

Matt 16:27 For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Rev 22:12 And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

Jesus' words, not Pauls'

[markomalley]

Catholics have been saved:

1 Pe 3:21 (RSV) Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Rom 6:4 (RSV) We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

Catholics are being saved:

Phil 2:12 (RSV) Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;

2Cor 1:5-7 (RSV) For as we share abundantly in Christ's sufferings, so through Christ we share abundantly in comfort too. If we are afflicted, it is for your comfort and salvation; and if we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which you experience when you patiently endure the same sufferings that we suffer. Our hope for you is unshaken; for we know that as you share in our sufferings, you will also share in our comfort.

Catholics live in hope that we will be saved:

Rom 5:9-10 (RSV) Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.

1 Cor 3:11-15 (RSV) For no other foundation can any one lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw--each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If the work which any man has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.

1 Thes 5:8-9 (RSV) But, since we belong to the day, let us be sober, and put on the breastplate of faith and love, and for a helmet the hope of salvation. For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

In other words, rather than seeing salvation as a singular event, we see it as a process that begins with baptism and ends with the particular judgement.

[A.A. Cunningham]

as I understand it

Therein lies the problem. You and your sources/cohorts don't understand what the teaching of the Church is.

Maybe if Seinfeld had devoted a few episodes to catechesis you and your sources/cohorts wouldn't be so clueless.

[steadfastconservative]

This writer, like many Protestants, confuses justification with salvation. We in no way merit justification, which is when God infuses His grace into us.
We do are not justified by our works. However, salvation is the attainment of heaven and just just because one has received God’s grace, i.e. been justified, it does not mean that he cannot lose that grace by sinning or that his salvation is assured.

Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments.” If we are to saved, we must do the will of God. Granted, our works can never be sufficient for our salvation but they are necessary to it.

I never did understand why Protestants think that a one-time infusion of grace is all that needed to get to heaven and that it does not matter at all what one does afterward, how many or what kind of sins he commits, that he is still saved. This is obviously a very flawed theology. But since it makes for an easier life, it’s a popular one.

[magisterium]

Your point of reference for all of the "errors" you perceive in the Catholic Church begins in the 16th Century. It is cheeky in the extreme to deny even the appellation of "Christian" to groups of people (and here I would certainly include the Orthodox and Oriental Churches) who transmitted the Faith that comes down to us from the Apostles for nearly 1500 years before your buddy John Calvin drew his first breath. The chutzpah found in this attitude is beyond description.

You obviously have no idea what a sandy foundation you build on, focusing on the mere opinions of men who denied a Faith with organic traceability to the time of Christ Himself. That you deny that traceability is your opinion. If the Faith was not accurately transmitted all those centuries wherein you say the Church was apostate, then God's promised providence, found, among other places, in Matthew 28, is totally meaningless. Your very premises insult God Himself, even while your aim is merely to insult Catholics with your statement that they are not even Christian.

[Claud]

Hey Calvinators,

I’d like your comment on these canons. I post them once in a while, but I never get anything more than a “hmmm...interesting.”

These are the first three canons on justification from the big bad Council of Trent, and there are anathemas attached to them...i.e. if you don’t believe these three things, you are a damnable heretic in the eyes of the Catholic Church.

Are they right or are they wrong? If wrong, where wrong?

-Claud

ON JUSTIFICATION

CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.

CANON II.-If any one saith, that the grace of God, through Jesus Christ, is given only for this, that man may be able more easily to live justly, and to merit eternal life, as if, by free will without grace, he were able to do both, though hardly indeed and with difficulty; let him be anathema.

CANON III.-If any one saith, that without the prevenient inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and without his help, man can believe, hope, love, or be penitent as he ought, so as that the grace of Justification may be bestowed upon him; let him be anathema.

[mysterio]

You know, as a Christian, I just don't get the teamsport aspect of organized religion. As in those guys aren't really Christians, those guys are heretics, so and so isn't going to heaven, etc.

The way I look at it, Jesus spent most his time teaching us to forgive and to help each other out. That seems the best way to follow him. I know I have room to improve.

But I couldn't really care less which sect of Christianity is the "correct" one.

[DungeonMaster]

Are they saved if they don’t believe in the term saved? For them salvation is an analog function on which one never knows where he stands. They consider it a sin to consider yourself saved from Hell and secure in faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

[John Leland 1789]

Does depemdence on the Righteousness of Christ for the remission of sins (Romans 3:24-26) produce a greater confidence in presenting Christ to others?

[griffin]

Galatians 3
O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you. It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

[narses]

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[windsorknot]

The occasional lurker might mistake this for a “religious forum”. If he has the stomach to read through the threads, he will discover that it is best enjoyed with some fava beans and a nice Chianti.

[free_life]

My Righteousness is in heaven....His name is Jesus. I have no righteousness of my own.

I cannot add one thing to the finished work of Christ on the cross towards my salvation. If a person believes they can earn their salvation or need purgatory to be good enough to enter into God’s presence they will miss what God wants for them - salvation through His Son Jesus Christ.

I love catholics...I have many catholic brothers and sisters....I just don’t want to see any of them miss God’s way to Him through His Son alone, because of doctrine that has added to the cross/payment of Christ. We must all be concerned with the seriousness of our eternity.

To only hope you are going to heaven or will make the grade in this purgatory fictional place is the most dangerous mistake someone who seeks after God can make. Just settle things with God at the cross of Christ by faith now and rest in Him till the day He takes you. And yep in the mean time work for Him, but out of love not duty.......there are so many lost that do not yet know the gospel of Christ.

[Mr. Mojo]

If you reject this notion, like the Jews do, then as far as I can tell from the biblical revelation, there is no hope for you.

Oh well. Hades, make way. And would ya page Robert Johnson and Muddy Waters for me? Thanks.