Posted on 08/18/2008 7:48:05 PM PDT by guitarplayer1953
Where do you stand on this pre trib, mid trib or post trib and why.
Clearly the church will not escape the tribulation and the faithful will have to endure till the end when Jesus returns and catches His people up into the air on His way down to bring His judgment and peace.
You mean no u-turns no secret rapture he only returns once? sarcasm
No secret rapture. No "cosmic dog whistle" that only Christians hear. The voice of an archangel.
When does Jesus say he will raise us up?
--"lee n. field", not a dispensational premillenialist.
One question are those people who are saved during the tribulation part of the bride of Christ and His body? If not why?
Pre-trib because this is what the Bible teaches. More important though is are you saved by grace through faith in the risen Christ?
None of this matters if you are not “in Christ”.
Tom
Pre-trib, pre-millenial.
Several good books on the topic to walk through it, other than Scripture itself.
Footsteps of the Messiah, by Dr Arnold Fruchtenbaum, a Messianic Jew who addresses eschatology from a Jewish perspective. Very well studied.
Dwight Pentecost’s “Things to Come”.
IMHO, once one identifies the tribes and their geographical locations in Ezekiel 28, and 29, then look at present day geopolitics, it sure looks like we are in preparatory phases of placing all the players into position for the Gog-Magog invasion of northern Israel.
The North and South American continents and their nations are probably associated with Tarshish and the young lions thereof.
IMHO, we might be taken out of the picture as a gesture of God’s grace telegraphed to the rest of humanity of what happens to nations with believers who fall away from Him and fail to return to Him. I suspect we shall undergo massive earthquakes and civil war in the west just prior to the Gog-Magog invasion.
It’s interesting to note that the tribes mentioned in the Gog-Magog invasion into Israel are not Arabic. Those who protest, simply seek to confirm Gog’s intent to plunder gold and silver and the riches of Israel. Almost reads as modern day statesmanship from the western democracies.
After the Magog defeat, there is 7 years of cleaning up the battlefields, burning the weapons as fuel, and 7 months of burying the dead.
The Great Tribulation, lasting 7 years is a period of turmoil for Israel, but she is saved and regathered in faith. Her initial gathering, perhaps since 1948 has been a regathering in unbelief.
I can further understand Prophecy clearly to describe the abomination of desolation. Those words have very real meaning and should be intuitive to every believer through faith in Christ, though I suspect too many shall simply associate it with a physical building in the Temple Mount, and too easily allow the mark of the beast to be implemented without fully grasping its significance.
A remnant shall persevere, though, regardless the adversity and trevail encountered.
Pre Belly Button Fuzz, Post Toe Jam. That’s when I mine Ear Wax.
The Church might not escape worldly wrath, but the great Tribulation serves a different purpose.
The very definition of the Church is why the Church shall not remain throughout the Great Tribulation, but believers will exist in the Great Tribulation.
It sure helps to begin with basic Bible doctrines then advance to deeper doctrines when studying Prophecy, but it is also knowable through faith in Christ by the work of God, the Holy Spirit.
Those saved with a regenerated human spirit during the Great Tribulation shall have eternal life, but that doesn’t mean God the Holy Spirit indwells them at that point of human history. The Church is His body and bride which has been indwelt by the Holy Spirit. When the Restrainer is removed, a different dispensation is administered.
What leads you to believe that the Church must suffer the wrath of God which has been reserved for those who do evil in the last 3.5 years of the Tribulation? Are we to suffer His wrath for doing good?
Revelation 19:4-10
4The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God, who was seated on the throne. And they cried: "Amen, Hallelujah!"
5Then a voice came from the throne, saying: "Praise our God, all you his servants, you who fear him, both small and great!"
6Then I heard what sounded like a great multitude, like the roar of rushing waters and like loud peals of thunder, shouting: "Hallelujah! For our Lord God Almighty reigns. 7Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. 8Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear." (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the saints.)
9Then the angel said to me, "Write: 'Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!' " And he added, "These are the true words of God."
10At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, "Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." In Revelation 20 we read this:
Revelation 20
The Thousand Years
1And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years.
3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.
4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.
These referred to in bold above are saved, and saved out of the tribulation. BUT, at the time of the Wedding Feast of the Lamb in heaven, they are still dead and have yet to be "wakened."
Pretty clear to me. You?
;-/
The latest the Rapture can come is the signing of the covenant between the AntiChrist and Israel, and the signing of that Covenant begins the Great Tribulation, but the Rapture doesn’t have to occur at that time, for the Great Tribulation is not begun by the Rapture, but by the signing of that covenant.
Note Rev 3:10.
Which verse are you referring to on the Restrainer?
Pre-wrath.
Note that when Christ meets the Church in the air, His destination is not downwards, but upwards to take the Church up. The downward approach also occurs, the wrathful, Day of the Lord, but for a different objective, in bringing in the Millennial Kingdom.
No earth dweller shall escape the the cataclysms of the Great Tribulation, but those who prevail shall escape to stand before the Son of man. (See Luke 21:34-37)
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