Posted on 10/08/2008 10:12:46 AM PDT by NYer
An expert in the history of the Catholic Church, Domingo Ramos-Lissón, explained in an interview that the preparation of the early Christians for baptism could last up to three years, and that many professions prohibited a person from registering as a catechumen.
"If we follow the path taken by someone who wanted to become a Christian in the fourth century, initially we will see a thorough examination of his life, family conditions and aspiring profession," Ramos-Lissón said in an interview with the website PrimerosCristianos.com (First Christians).
In that regard, he explained, "some family situations, such as polygamy and concubinage, or professions, such as theatrical actor, magician, guardian of idols, gladiator and other offices, prevented that person from being considered a catechumen. However, once they changed their lifestyle, they were given the chance to be baptized.
Ramos-Lissón noted that once admitted, the catechumens "could attend the Liturgy of the Word in the Eucharistic celebration."
According to the stories of the fourth century, the preparation lasted at least 40 days and began eight weeks before Easter. "The formation included three aspects: doctrinal, moral and ritual."
However, he indicated that the early sources describe the preparation in the first second centuries. One reference speaks "of a three year long catechetical instruction."
Ramos-Lissón remarked that during this time, catechumens responded to various concerns including the threat of persecution and the presence of the heretics, "which could confuse the good faith of those who came to Christianity. These factors prompted the Church to bring the catechumens to the test of time and perseverance."
Historical ping!
That didn’t stop Christians from fighting both gladiators and lions in the same settings.
That would be acceptable if the movie contained the following disclaimer:
"No gladiators were killed or harmed in the making of this movie."
What if you’ve been in a Turkish prison?
And yet in Acts 8 Philip explained Isaiah 53 to the Ethiopian eunuch at Gaza. He was converted right there and baptized on the spot.
The only thing required for baptism is a belief in Jesus Christ as your savior. That’s it.
There is nothing grand or wonderful about ancient (or modern) practices that set up artifical, man-made barriers.
“What sorrow awaits you experts in religious law! For you remove the key to knowledge from the people. You don’t enter the Kingdom yourselves, and you prevent others from entering.” Luke 11:52 NLT
So you can just go on sinning and not worry about it?
The situations that barred people from becoming catechumens were lifestyles that were in and of themselves sinful. Not just sexual sin (polygamy or concubinage) but theatrical actor (dedicated to pagan gods), magician (setting oneself up as equal to God and consorting with evil spirits), guardian of idols (nuf ced), gladiator (killing other human beings for pay). You have to undergo a conversion -- a turning around -- and abandon sinful life.
Otherwise it would be like being a Mafia hit man and claiming you were a "good Catholic". And yeah, I know a lot of them do, but they're lying and they know it.
You turn your life over to God, then God changes your life.
You imply that a sinner should know how to clean up their life so it is accpetable to God, but without God’s help no one can make themselves accpetable to God.
Jesus can to save the lost, not the righteous (or should I say self-righteous, as no one can become righteous apart from God.)
You turn your life over to God, then God changes your life.
You imply that a sinner should know how to clean up their life so it is accpetable to God, but without God’s help no one can make themselves accpetable to God.
Jesus can to save the lost, not the righteous (or should I say self-righteous, as no one can become righteous apart from God.)
You have to join the Church with the intention of changing your life - "work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God that worketh in you."
I found that link very interesting. I named by guardian angel “Felicity” because that is a trait I need help with. I ask my guardian to help me with being less of a worrier. Of course, I also hear Felicity’s name at Mass.
Is that from the gospel according to Brookhaven?(Sarc)
Seriously, does the Bible say that, or is that just your opinion?
Sure can, our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus redeemed ever sin, past, present and future on the Cross.
Redemption is different than forgiveness, though. After becoming a believer, one still has a regenerated human spirit, but if we sin after becoming a believer we fall out of fellowship, we don't out=trump God when He gives eternal life.
So after we believe and sin, we are now perceiving His Holiness, which is is Perfect Justice and His Perfect Righteousness, from the viewpoint of anticipating His Judgment. We have a fearful expectation of firey indignation from Him. When we return to Him and confess our sins to the Father through faith in Christ, He is sure and just to forgive us those sins.
When we sin after salvation, we aren't getting away with anything other than having lost possibly qualifying for another crown in heaven which was made in eternity past for us, to be awarded by the Son at the Bema Seat.
Our salvation is not dependent on what we do, its dependent all on Him, and only through faith in Him is He free to forgive our sins.
The Gospel is that our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus was judged on the Cross by the Father for every personal sin humanity has ever committed and they have been redeemed. Forgiveness for the unbeliever happens at the moment of belief and faith in Christ. Forgiveness for the believer who has sinned happens when the believer returns to Him and confesses all known and unknown sins to Him.
Thanks for clarifying the job descriptions. Gladiators were also pimped out to rich women and they were also studded because they generally were very big muscular and aggressive men. This lifestyle certainly doesn’t mesh with the Teachings of Christ.
True. There’s lots of stuff in Suetonius (he’s the most gossipy of the ancient Romans). Sometimes I wonder if he was strictly truthful or if he went for the shock value over strict accuracy . . . . but then I look at Hollywood and I figure yeah, it could all be true!
What if you’ve ever seen a grown man naked?
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