Posted on 10/30/2008 1:09:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
I know you meant that rather tongue in cheek, but that is rather an interesting statement. Wouldn’t purgatory be a sign of degrees in the salvation process? Isn’t it in some indirect way limited atonement. Hmmmm.....
No no no, you need to find the part of the definition YOU don’t understand.
I understand it fine. It simply does not mean what you claim it does.
Good point!! And on the face of it, it looks good! —Sincerely!
“The authors started preaching”. (Later things were committed to writing, that is undeniable!).
Mk:16:15: And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and (preach) the gospel to every creature. (KJV)
Can you show me where our Lord commanded them to write anything?
If so, did He command them to write EVERYTHING they had learned from Him? —I can assure you that you won’t be able to.
Actually we have proof that many things were not committed to writing:
—
Jn:20:30: And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: (KJV)
Jn:21:25: And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. (KJV)
—
Therefore, your point that the traditions were later also committed to writing has no historical basis. Indeed the opposite is true: The evidence shows that the apostles were aware that there were two distinct types of transmission of Divine truth: The one oral and the other written:
2Thes:3:6: Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition(oral) which he received of us. (KJV)
2Tm:3:15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures(written), which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (KJV)
2Tm:3:16: All scripture(written) is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: (KJV)
2Thes:2:15: Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the (traditions) which ye have been taught, whether by word(oral), or our epistle(written). (KJV)
1Pt:1:25: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached(oral) unto you. (KJV)
3Jn:1:9: I (wrote) unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. (KJV)
2Tm:1:13: Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard(oral) of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. (KJV)
2Tm:2:2: And the things that thou hast heard(oral) of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. (KJV)
Rom:15:4: For whatsoever things were (written) aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. (KJV)
1Jn:2:24: Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard(oral) from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. (KJV)
Gonzo
And although Jesus did many other signs,
Jn:20:30: And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
it wouldn't have helped us even if they had been written about...The signs were for unbelieving Jews...
1Co 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
1Co 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
After Paul was commissioned to be the apostle to the Gentiles, the signs (to the unsaved Jews) disappeared...
We already know that everything we need to know for our salvation is written in the scriptures and is confirmed by at least two witnesses...
It is not uncommon at all for many preachers to preach from memory, without notes or the scripture in front of them...You don't have to prove that people learned from oral teaching as well as written teaching...We all know that...
You guys keep posting the talking points which include little bits of scripture put out by your church...It's like soundbites from an Obama commercial...
You need to get into the bible and read and learn what this stuff is all about...
Don’t you understand, Gonzo? You need to get into the Bible and read and learn the personal interpretation of Scripture espoused by whichever anti-Catholic bigot is haranguing against the Catholic Church at the moment.
Later on, you need to get into the Bible and read and learn the personal interpretation of Scripture espoused by the next anti-Catholic bigot to come along.
And so on and so forth...
Yeah, sure.
God said He would preserve His words forever...And He did...
You guys claim that God preserved some of His words in your church by your Magisterium, outside of the scripture...But clearly, nothing that has been written by your church outside of the scriptures will add a single thing that contributes to the salvation of the lost...
Joh 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
1Jn 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
Everything we need to know for our salvation is revealed in the written word of God, the scriptures...
Thankyou for your contribution to the discussion...
You made an unproven (and unprovable) claim. I needed only two words to point that out.
Could you show me the text or texts to back that up?
While the Apostles were preaching without the Gospels they had to have been lacking in “everything” they needed to know for their salvation.
Just what were they teaching?
Ho hum. The ye ol’ Catholic argument...”No, no, no. You have it all wrong but we’re not going to explain it to you.”
I’ve heard this many times before.
I have no doubt you are often told how wrong you have it.
Yes, even when I recite the Catholic encyclopedia to Catholics they state I have it wrong. Catholicism has to be the most fluid religion in the world-except for Catholics’ position on Mary and the Eucharist.
It is not the recitation from the encyclopedia which is wrong, but your misinterpretation and/or misapplication of the words. The fluidity you mention is not Catholicism, but the misrepresentations of Catholicism by those who hate it.
I wish you would provide an interpret to the definition that I've provided-which you've failed to do. It might prove a more substantive discussion.
Everyone in purgatory is saved.
Not the issue? LOL
The title question is “Does Purgatory Deny the Sufficiency of Christ’s Sacrifice?”
The answer is no. Everyone in purgatory is saved.
Hmmmm...trying to get you to explain the Catholic encyclopedia is like trying Obama to explain his 95% tax cut. Both are futile.
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