Posted on 10/30/2008 1:09:05 PM PDT by Gamecock
To provide a place or state in which unrepented venial sins of those who die in a state of grace can be forgiven, and any remaining "temporal punishment" they may have due to already-forgiven sins may be removed. (Baltimore Catechism, question 1381)
Unrepented venial sins are forgiven by the same mechanism by which they are forgiven on earth: "an act of contrition moved by grace," according to St. Thomas.
"Temporal punishment" requires some explanation. Every sin has consequences; damage which is done to the soul, just like disease damages the body. One consequence of grave sin is "eternal punishment," which is the punishment of hell which is taken away by our salvation.
"Temporal punishment" is everything else. God is free to remit all or some of this gratis (and does remit all of it at baptism for sins committed before baptism), but he is not required to do so. (Remember, God is sovereign.)
The removal of this punishment, if not undertaken on earth, must happen after death and before one enters heaven. This process happens by the merits of Christ through his Body, the Church.
Scripture speaks of this in 1 Cor 3. The Protestant argument that any sort of chastisement for sin somehow impugns the sacrifice of Christ is nonsense in view of Hebrews 12:5-11. Nor does it follow that the poor souls in purgatory "earn their salvation" (they're already saved) or "earn their way into heaven" any more than any of the rest of us (who are chastised also, remember Hebrews 12) do.
There's your explanation. That's what I believe as a Catholic. You're free not to believe it. If you want to convince me that it's not what the Catholic church teaches and that I'm a bad Catholic for believing it, be prepared to present evidence for your claim. A lot of evidence.
I explain. If you cannot process the explanation, this is not my problem.
But it is so much easier to mock a misrepresentation of it.
I know you meant that rather tongue in cheek, but that is rather an interesting statement. Wouldn’t purgatory be a sign of degrees in the salvation process? Isn’t it in some indirect way limited atonement. Hmmmm.....
I suppose I had sort of an epiphany, so I was trying to be provocative. :) It finally occurred to me that "our term" ..................... "limited atonement" ................. really applies to Catholics and others of the same ilk at least as much if not more than it applies to us. The atonement they believe in is very wide, but paper-thin, such that it is of little to zero value to any person UNLESS he jumps through the hoops for his Church. The power for them isn't in the one-time Atonement, it is in what the Church (and the person) does later to add to Christ's atonement. Here I would say their view of Christ's work is extremely limited.
It is interesting that we see Christ's work as narrow but complete, and they see it as wide but indeterminate. Strong, sovereign God vs. weak, subservient God to man's will. Both sides believe in limited atonement, it's just a question of WHO is being limited. :)
And yes, purgatory, IMO, is a direct admission that Christ's atonement was insufficient for Heavenly salvation according to their beliefs. I see no way around that. :)
To provide a place or state in which unrepented venial sins of those who die in a state of grace can be forgiven, and any remaining "temporal punishment" they may have due to already-forgiven sins may be removed. (Baltimore Catechism, question 1381).
That is NOT what the Baltimore Catechism, question 1381 states. It states the following:
A. Purgatory is the state in which those suffer for a time who die guilty of venial sins, or without having satisfied for the punishment due to their sins.
That clearly means that Christ died only for mortal sins, not venial sins.
It neither says nor means any such thing. It says what it says, not what you claim it "clearly means."
Everyone in purgatory has already been saved by Christ's Sacrifice on the Cross.
THANKS FOR THE PING.
Amen! When Jesus cried out, “It is finished,” He meant,
“It IS finished.” The plan of salvation is complete. It was made complete at Calvary. There’s no need to add to it.
Furthermore, the Bible doesn’t teach purgatory. Nor does it teach prayers for the dead. The soul goes to either Heaven or Hell, and there is no chance for lost people to be saved after they have died. The best time for lost people to be saved is now, while they are still living and breathing and able to think and reason clearly. After they are dead, it’s too late. Yes, Catholics and all you Armstrongites, too, today IS the day of salvation.
I believe I stated that. According to the Catechism you are saved from your "mortal" sin. But if one were to take the time to read just a few lines down it also states that you must pay a price for your venial sins. It's all in the Catechism. You undoubtedly will not wish to give an explanation on the Catechism either; simply saying that it doesn't mean what is written.
False!
According to the Catechism you are saved from your sin.
Purgatory is the state in which those suffer for a time who die guilty of venial sins, or without having satisfied for the punishment due to their sins.
What are venial sins and why are they not satisfied?
It does not say they are not satisfied. Purgatory is to satisfy for the punishment of those sins.
It's a question of absolution.
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