Posted on 11/10/2008 11:37:17 AM PST by betty boop
Socialism is in reality a second reality.. a closed system, that many buy into.. Ronaldus Maximus said it quite simply..
"How do you tell a Socialist:- It's someone who reads Marx and Lenin. And how do you tell an Anti-Socialist.... someone who understands Marx and Lenin" -Ronald Reagan
However, there is a vast difference between hearing about Jesus and knowing Him.
hosepipe often puts it something like this: "Jesus: you MUST be born again."
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. - John 3:5-7
Totally agreed that historical knowledge is a distinct part of reality. It must be a substitute for direct experience since it deals with vast stretches of the human past in which we were not living. But history is susceptible to "doctrinalization," which may deform or even misrepresent the actual historical record. For instance, Marx's Communist Manifesto is essentially an elaboration of Marx's theory of history, which in many ways is the projection in retrospect of his own personal character, beliefs, and aspirations onto the actual historical record. In Marx's case, this deformation is so extreme that we can call it a "second reality."
Also take the example of Karl Jasper's axial time, in which he segregates the historical period roughly 800–200 B.C., focusing on ~500 B.C., noting that at this time certain great yet quite similar irruptions of the human spirit took place via such figures as Confucius, Lao-Tse, the Buddha, Deutero-Isaiah, Heraclitus, and Pythagoras — a striking contemporaneity that cannot be explained by cultural diffusion. Jaspers on a look-back sees axial time as a distinct "era," carving it out, as it were, from the stream of history; and then imbuing it with the éclat of being the very period in human history in which the few seminal, constituting thinkers established the lasting cultural bases of their respective societies.
There are two things "wrong" with Jasper's idea of axial time as the seedbed of the great historical human cultures. (1) In his search for meaning in history, he relies on his own rational criteria and lived experience (as indeed he must), backloading them onto a period when men then living would never have seen them as relevant to their own lived experience (there being no Protestant, post-Enlightenment thinkers back then). In short, this procedure is anachronistic. (2) Axial time completely omits Moses and Christ (who of course did not live in this "era") — without whom the 2000-year-old Western culture would be utterly unintelligible.
You are absolutely right to say that historical events actually provide concrete meaning to our experiences. Certainly this was true for Marx and Jaspers. My only point is that the overlay of our own personal rational criteria and experiences backwards onto history in our search for the meaning of it may distort history and the conclusions we reach about it. "History" can be distorted, deformed by "historiography." This is equally true whether we are speaking of history in general or evolution theory in particular.
I never intended anyone to think I was speaking of "language games" in my last. When I said that "experience, self-reflection, and articulation are the very foundations of everything we know or think we know," by "articulation" I meant "language." Language is not a "game." It is the only means by which human beings can communicate their experiences to one another, the only way knowledge can be conveyed and preserved. There is no other.
Note the "category" of self-reflection. It is here that men become aware of spiritual experience (if they ever do). It is here where the God–Man relation is sensed, where we encounter the divine, where we meet Christ.
the_conscience, thank you so very much for your penetrating essay-post!
Thanks, AG. Without trying to parse your statement too closely I'll only add that all men know the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost through nature, conscience, and providence to leave them without excuse. The fact that many suppress the truth only adds to their condemnation (Rom 1).
bb,
What you highlight and examine is true and accurate. But I wonder do not all men engage in a second reality? Getting to first reality is knowing God accurately and I’m afraid we all fall short of that mark. The unbeliever will reside in second reality while, perchance, he might at a point reflect and turn for a moment to first reality, but like the prodigal son he will headlong to the pig trough.
As to the spiritual experience, well, I guess i like to be concrete and where the existential is examined it is always the history of the existential in light of the transcendent law. If the existential is not fully perceived in light of the transcendent law than the spiritual becomes merely creature worship.
Happy Providence!
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. [There is] no speech nor language, [where] their voice is not heard. – Psalms 19:1-3
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: - John 10:27
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. - John 6:65
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people's heart is waxed gross, and [their] ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with [their] eyes, and hear with [their] ears, and should understand with [their] heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear. – Matthew 13:13-16
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. – I Corinthians 2:11-14
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. – Romans 8:9
The gestalt of identity is what being born again is all about.. Do you identify with the "flesh" or do you identify with the "spirit"/Spirit?.. What "are" you?.. Flesh?... spirit?.. both or neither?.. What is at stake is not only your lifestyle.. but the spirit of your awareness..
When you look into a mirror do you see yourself?.. or merely the container of yourself?.. Are you happy with the packaging or do you want(seek after) the contents of the packaging.. Large questions requiring answers about "identity"..
What is God, Angels, spirits, demons, the devil? are distant answers to personal identity.. cause what "you" are determines what those things(beings) are.. in your world..
Personal Indentity is at the base of who you think you are.. Metaphorically being born again is mandatory to your world view.. What Hegel missed (I think) is after becoming sure of who you(anyone) think you are.. you might be WRONG!.. I love the verse of I Cor 2;9..
Identifying with God (on any level) is a mind blowing event..
Are you a primate?... or something else entirely..
the_conscience, I'm intrigued by your use of the word "existential" here. Are you referring to subjective experience? Or did you intend something else by this term? I just want to be clear that I'm understanding you correctly.
Trying to attain wisdom apart from the spiritual (God) has been a temptation from the beginning. The results are always the same; a lack of understanding and separation from God.
Thank you so much for sharing your insights!
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
And my speech and my preaching [was] not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. – I Corinthians 2:1-5
But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. - I Corinthians 1:24
Thank you for bringing it back to Jesus, Alamo-Girl!
BTW your new book is on my Christmas "wish list."
“Are you referring to subjective experience?”
Yes.
weston wrote: Trying to attain wisdom apart from the spiritual (God) has been a temptation from the beginning. The results are always the same; a lack of understanding and separation from God.
Beautiful insights both! It seems we're all seeing the same thing here though perhaps from slightly different perspectives. Ultimately it's called "soul," and our common concern is with what constitutes its good order.
Man is more than a "creature," i.e., in the sense of having a finite physical body. God created him in His own image, i.e., as an eternal soul, a spiritual entity whose essential nature is liberty and understanding. Created man is "psyche in soma," as the Greeks put it — embodied, incarnated spirit — the implication being, as St. Thomas Aquinas pointed out, that psyche is the senior partner, the specifying order of the corporeal body, and that without the soul there could be no soma, no corporeal body, in the first place.
Soul is moreover the seat of all subjective experience whatsoever: It is where the light of the transcendent law can become luminous in human consciousness, mediating all true understanding and knowledge.
A soul closed to God means a deliberate separation from God's order, which involves a sort of collapse back into one's own creatureliness. The soul becomes disordered, because closure to God means that the soul loses connection to its own innate principle of order. When this happens, we begin to "devolve" into brute animals.
Man was made for God, not God for man. We can reject our God-given nature by denying the soul. We are at perfect liberty to do that. But in doing that, in effect, we reject our own divinely-constituted humanity as well, notably including reason and free will....
Typically we humans take pretty good care of our bodies. But what are we doing for the good order and care of our souls?
Just some ruminations, FWIW. Thank you weston and one_conscience for your excellent posts!
So odd you would say this today, betty. This evening as I drove back to my hotel, I was busily building a mental list of things I need to do before retiring. I was thinking about working out in the gym, checking email etc; at the same time searching for a good radio station (I'm in a new city today). A station was playing some sort of Gregorian Chant type music which sounded rather soothing and I continued to let my mind race. But this song kept saying the same thing over and over "for the beauty of your mercy and passion, we thank you Lord for ourselves and the world" After 4 or 5 times I sort of got irritated because it was interrupting my thoughts. Suddenly the words shook me awake and something in my spirit stirred. A little voice in my head said almost your very exact words! You're taking care of your body and your business, but what are you doing to care for your soul?
I've been trying to figure out how I ended up on this thread, because I would not consider myself a deep philosophical thinker like the rest here. But today I think I know why. This may be TMI, but I thank you for your post.
Thank you so very much for sharing your testimony and insights, dear brother in Christ!
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