Posted on 11/23/2008 1:43:37 PM PST by driftdiver
One of the key leaders of today's most cutting-edge church movement has opened an Internet discussion on the issue of same-sex marriage with the bold proclamation that he believes "gay, lesbian, bisexual, transsexual and queer" individuals can and should live out their sexuality in – and blessed by – the Christian church.
"I now believe that GLBTQ can live lives in accord with biblical Christianity (as least as much as any of us can!)," writes author and church leader Tony Jones, "and that their monogamy can and should be sanctioned and blessed by church and state."
Jones is an author and former youth pastor who holds a doctorate from Princeton Theological Seminary. He is also the national coordinator of Emergent Village, a loosely-formed friendship of churches that derive their descriptive name from having "emerged" from postmodernism to take the gospel of Jesus Christ into a post-Christian culture.
The "Emergent Church," as these mostly young, community- and mission-driven congregations are collectively known, is criticized by some for being "theologically liberal," praised by others as the best hope for passing the torch of Christianity to future generations.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
Emrgent chruches adopt nihilism in principle. They empty Christianity of all its moral and theological content, and transform it into a secular club of wishy-washy hippies. Their only aim is to please those who clearly live in violation of biblical commandments. I’ve heard a pastor say once that “Jesus never said anything against homosexuality.” That is nonsense, since the Bible is clear about this in Levitus and Romans. Why would Jesus say anything about it when the Totah did already? (Jesus stopped the stonning of a harlot but he didn’t say “your lifestyle is ok” He said “Go, and sin no more”). Also, unlike Rome and Greece, where Paul preached, Judea was extremely conservative in the time of Christ, and homosexuality was not even an issue there. Emergent heretics would like to chop out Romans from the Bible too, because Romans 1:20-32 couldn’t be clearer about the evils of homosexuality. Homosexuality, as the Bible views it, is simply an abomination to God (Lev) and a violation of nature (Rom).
Next, he might ask himself why “marriage” would make his gay friends happy, if they're not already happy just living together and doing (er) whatever they suppose will make them happy in a LBGTQ way. Maybe he would conclude that repenting from sin, refraining from further sin of that kind, and seeking psychological help might be more conducive both the immediate happiness and eternal happiness.
Nah, can't have that.
That would go beyond FEELINGS. THINKING is not allowed for the depraved. They truly want you to believe that the gay “lifestyle choice” is just as valid as a NORMAL heterosexual marriage. THAT is where the problem lies. We LOST the DEBATE when we did NOT focus on the FACT that being gay is NOT normal. They've moved on from there.
We need to refocus the debate back to being “gay” is NOT normal and then common sense would help defeat their argument.
I think we lost the debate when we (as a society, if not as individuals) accepted contraception, abortion, fornication, adultery, and divorce for heterosexuals. If marriage is not permanent, exclusive, and open to procreation, then why can't homosexuals do it?
Many individuals did not accept this and still don't. But the % has gotten smaller. “Churches” have fallen down on the job and I believe that influenced people allot to compromise. True Christians know that homosexuals shouldn't be committing “adultery”. Homosexuals can't “procreate”. So whether you are a hetrosexual or a homosexual messing around isn't acceptable.
Still I go back the original PREMISE of the homosexual argument that homosexuality is WRONG. Homosexuals believe their "lifestyle choice" is RIGHT. Homosexuals have won the debate on that. It is ASSUMED that it is okay and so they march on to get MORE “rights”. See what I mean? Also churches didn't emphasize enough that it is wrong and try and LIFT THEM OUT OF IT - like when heterosexuals “sin”. The “go and sin no more” is also out of the discussion.
I have decided that 'adultery' can be a biblical lifestyle too
I would like to open an Internet discussion on the issue of marital infidelity with the bold proclamation that I believe "adulterous" individuals can and should live out their sexuality in – and blessed by – the Christian church.
"I now believe that the unfaithful can live lives in accord with biblical Christianity (as least as much as any of us can!)," writes this Freeper, tongue in cheek (just don't ask in whose cheek), "and that their part-time monogamy can and should be sanctioned and blessed by church and state."
As far as I can tell, my minor modifications are precisely as Biblically based as the "Emergent Church Leader's" views. Okay, so there are a few dozen Old and New Testament verses that condemn my position, just as there are a few dozen Old and New Testament verses that condemn homosexual acts, but think of all the tens of thousands of verses that say nothing about sexual immorality in either form. Isn't there a parallel between "a good and loving God wouldn't give people homosexual urges and then expect them not to act on those urges," and "a good and loving God wouldn't give people adulterous urges and then expect them not to act on those urges"? By that reasoning, can't we just delete all the restrictions on our conduct that the Bible used to impose, and we'll treat God like Santa Claus - we get goodies, but he doesn't ask anything at all of us, not even that we pay attention to His word?
The Emergent Church phenomenon seeks to throw off historic traditions and orthodoxies that might color how the Bible is understood. What makes them odd is that they are not protesting in favor of a particular doctrine over another - they are apparently rejecting all prior institutionalizing of traditions, creeds, and exegesis altogether. IMO their groups (and countless non-denominational others) are born of the (false) beliefs that all institutional authority is corrupt by definition, and that the larger/older the institution is, the more corrupt it is. They reject the wisdom of King Solomon, who instructs us "And though a man might prevail against one who is alone, two will withstand him—a threefold cord is not quickly broken" (Ecclesiastes 4:12).
Take a look at the demographics that comprise the Emergent movement. The Emergent Church culture is IMO nothing more than a younger generation rebelling against their believing elders. Doctrinally, they're not "first century" - they're rebelling against orthodoxy. By not drafting or adopting a formal statement of beliefs, they willful sequester themselves from examination and correction, preventing outside congregations, visitors, friends, fellow believers and unbelievers from discovering what their actual doctrinal beliefs are. Everything's open for debate with the Emergents, which means they're equally willing to consider heresy as much as orthodoxy. This shift towards a gay-friendly theology is evidence they they're rebelling against orthodoxy.
He better re-read Paul.
Richard Rodriguez, poignant author of the book Hunger of Memory wrote that contraception turns otherwise normal couples into "married gays" ... recreation - procreation = frivolity.
I can't say I agree 100% -- we had to stop at 4 kids, since they all came by C-section.
Yes, not part of the apostolic succession like 'rainbow' Bishop Pilla.
Excellent points.
There are, of course, a variety of perspectives. And the Biblical texts on homosexuality are sufficient, to anyone for whom the Bible is authoritative, to erase any possibility that a church should bless participation in such activities.
However, in terms of the general culture - with many individual exceptions of course - marriage has become a mockery of the relationship described in the New Testament. Because of this, it can be difficult to make a case, to the average secular (or even self-described “Christian”) person, against homosexuals’ having the legal status of “marriage” applied to their relationships.
with the bold proclamation that he believes “gay, lesbian, bisexual, transsexual and queer” individuals can and should live out their sexuality in – and blessed by – the Christian church.
Silly people must not be able to read the Bible.
As Christians we can pray that people that chose to engage in deviant and immoral conduct are touched by Gods grace and come to repent their sins accept Jesus Christ as their savior and become members of the Kingdom.
Nothing in the Word instructs us to accept or tolerate deviant or immoral behavior.
You may have a point, but its no worse than the baby boomer “contemporary worship” movement with all its watered-down doctrine set to romantic pop song melodies.
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Obama Says A Baby Is A Punishment
Obama: “If they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby.”
They can call themselves whatever they want but it does not make them so. Jesus said “you shall know them by their works.” and he also said “Not everyone who says to me Lord Lord will enter the Kingdom Of Heaven.”
Bottom line is a Christian is not just one who believes (even the demons believe but they are not going to Heaven) in Jesus as the Son Of God but one who lives his/her life according to his teachings. We are sinners saved by grace we still make mistakes but we sincerely go to the Lord in prayer for forgiveness and try not to sin anymore (1 John 1:9). We still stumble but we should be trying daily to “be not be overcome with evil but overcome evil with good.”
I think many have forgotten the true meaning of Christianity and have used it to define ANYONE who says the are Christian. It is about so much more than a title it is all about a lifestyle that emulates the one we call Lord.
Amen!
They seem to forget that Jesus told the adultress “Go and SIN NO MORE.”
That was my question. What is the "Emergent Church"? It sounds like something concocted by people from a left-wing college campus. We have seen this before in Christian history. The heretics always repeat their predecessors.
“Richard Rodriguez, poignant author of the book Hunger of Memory wrote that contraception turns otherwise normal couples into “married gays” ... recreation - procreation = frivolity.”
Within a marriage sex is about more than procreation. It brings husband and wife closer and makes the marriage stronger.
You'll have no argument from me!
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