Posted on 12/29/2008 8:05:34 AM PST by NYer
So I took the kids out to the mall to shop for Mom two days before Christmas. I want them to know that Christmas is not just about receiving but giving as well.
Now let me ask a weird hypothetical. If I showed up at the Mall wearing only briefs and say my wife showed up in a minuscule bra and panties we'd likely be dragged from the premises and arrested. And rightly so, especially if you've seen me in briefs. But no matter what, it's bad, right? So why is it OK for some of these stores to have huge window displays of essentially naked people. I mean, are these store owners out of their minds. Walking by Abercrombie or Victoria's Secret is essentially a walking tour of porn for children. Hey kids step on up and peer inside the sick twisted mind of adulthood where we view others as vessels of flesh waiting to be boarded and devoured.
It's lunacy.
So as we're passing a bunch of sex-soaked stories, I do my best to distract the kids from the window display. I start singing a loud Christmas carol and they all become embarrassed by me and try to stop me from singing anymore. So for anybody who saw the fat bearded dad singing in front of a ten foot porn window display with children laughing and climbing all over him, it was me.
But here's the thing. I know my kids saw it. They didn't mention it. But I know they see it. They see it. They internalize it. They think that window display represents the realm of adulthood. They intuit that adults desire 8-pack abs and 38 D breasts. And kids want to be adults.
Here's the truth. If a man was caught showing pictures of topless women in pink underwear holding their breasts or men in wet briefs, they'd be arrested. But when a store does it, it's capitalism.
So a few hours later I'm making the call I never thought I'd make in my life. I call the mall two days before Christmas to complain about the lewd window displays. The funny thing is that while I'm on hold I'm feeling like I'm the crazy one. I'm feeling like "I can't believe I've become the guy who complains about lewd window displays." I didn't think I'd ever use the word 'lewd' never mind call to complain about aforementioned lewdness. I'm feeling like I have to convince this guy on the phone that I'm not one of these crazy religious Jerry Falwell types. But then it hits me. I'm the sane one. Those displays are crazy to have in front of children. So instead of getting into a morality type conversation with the guy I just decide to speak his language. "I'm just calling to let you know that my family which comes to the mall often will not come back unless you guys stop allowing pornographic window displays."
So I make the call and I'm feeling proud of myself. And I walk back into the room where the children are watching The Polar Express on ABC Family. And then comes a commercial about some show about a fifteen year old girl who is pregnant. "Fifteen!?" says my nine year old.
"How can you have a baby if you're not married," asks my six year old.
They all look at me. "Hey guys Polar Express is back on!" And thanks to my amazing powers of distraction I muddled through yet another awkward moment. But I know my kids. Nothing escapes them. Questions build. They never fade away.
And we wonder why are children are ending up sexualized. It's simple. Somewhere between the Merry-go-Round and the pretzels they're seeing and interpreting the adult world. They're unprotected out there. The adults want too much to be like children and the children want to be adults. It's time for adults to start acting like adults.
I do agree that parents and married couples must do their best to avoid the contamination of pornography, but it is not completely avoidable. It has been with us for a long time, but has evolved into a movement that is growing in strength. We must not be silent.
1. Everyone has his own idea of “best” - the “best” pimp, the “best” drag queen, the “best” porn star or producer, the “best” Marine, the “best” medieval scholar, etc etc.
In your world, apparently, these are all equally valid. No moral judgements allowed. Each person can make his own morality and they are all equal.... but...
2. Laissez faire - no moral judgements - let everyone choose his own path, they’re all equal - EXCEPT, those who disagree with you. THEY are wrong.
Internal nullification of your own philosophical foundation. If you were truly laissez faire you’d tolerate and be neutral about opinions and viewpoints that are diametrically in opposition to your own. But no, you are right and I am wrong, according to your comments here, so you do not have a laissez faire viewpint after all. A truly laissez faire advocate would see this thread (if they bothered to read it at all) and think with a shrug of the shoulders - “each to his own” and leave it at that.
You just want your side of unrestricted hedonism to be the default cultural standard, falsely parading the banner of laissez faire or tolerance. But your own words belie that so-called tolerance.
Do you want to know why I'm so against organized religion? Because it produces mindless sheep. Most people sleepwalk through life. We think we're enlightened, we're not.
"History does not record anywhere a religion that has any rational basis. Religion is a crutch for people not strong enough to stand up to the unknown without help."
-Robert A. Heinlein
>>Do you want to know why I’m so against organized religion?<<
No, I really don’t.
I want to know why you are pro-sexualizing children. It has nothing to do with religion.
As B-Chan’s post proved to you, your personal freedom is only what others allow you. If the rest of society has had enough of the crass and tasteless ways of advertising, you will not see it anymore.
So maybe you should just get over the idea that your personal freedom to have the world sexualized to your taste is against the correct way to raise children. Therefore we who do have children may well eventually change it.
In a hundred years no one is going to give a flying fig what you want. However, the way we raise our children today is going to effect the rest of our history.
You are so wrong. If I were to protest outside a Victoria's Secret I would be seen as a fool.
I work on the ethics from a personal level and am very involved in the political level. I believe I argue with liberals (in an argumentative sense) as much as any person in politics; I challenge the liberals head-on here in this wonderful State of California. I'm very vocal on prop 8. I write letters to all my congressmen and the newspapers.
When I argue these points I argue from virtue and respectability; not from religion. It leaves the liberals little to fight with. By their opposing my argument they are opposing respectability and virtue, which they don't like.
Libertarians, as a whole, are one of the most self-centered, rude, inconsiderate, narcissistic group of people I have ever encountered.
They sound like a bunch of two year olds who demand their own way and the hell with what anyone else thinks.
It doesn’t matter if what they do infringes on anyone else’s rights, it doesn’t matter if it harms someone else. By God, they’re going to have their way whether you like it or not.
And if you don’t like it, you can just stay home or rearrange your life to fit theirs, and suck it up and they don’t want to hear about it because they have their rights.
Common courtesy does not seem to be in their vocabulary and it doesn’t appear that they are interested in getting along with others. But we better accommodate them, or else.
It’s all about them.
They need to grow up. Spoiled children in adult bodies is not mature.
And generally, once it is pointed out that their philosophy of life has such grave internal contradictions that it makes no sense, they tiptoe away...
We are expecting our first, and it will be a major effort to try to keep my child's innocence as long as possible.
Congratulations! The world is in desperate need of well-raised children.
My advice - get rid of the TV and if you let him or her watch movies, be VERY VERY careful and only once in a while. Better if they love games, reading, playing, music, family interaction. And even stay home while one parent does the shopping, as much as possible.
Think of the grocery store lines and the magazines: “Mommy, what’s an orgasm?” “Daddy, what does it mean that man is gay?” “Mommy, why is that girl’s dress coming off?” etc. One grocery store I go to has one (out of several) “family friendly” lanes. Sheesh - the so-called womens’ magazines are unbelievable. If I had young children I wouldn’t want them to see the covers.
I don't care where you get your morality from. But I detest that you don't have any logical arguments with which to back them up. The religious love to meddle in other people's business when their own business is far from neat and tidy.
What you don't understand is that I can live my life as a good person and face the world without the help of an imaginary friend. My sense of good and evil is probably pretty similar to yours. We're not so different, you and I.
Libertarians, as a whole, are one of the most self-centered, rude, inconsiderate, narcissistic group of people I have ever encountered.
Since we're engaging in hyperbole...
Religious people, as a whole, are one of the most mindless, naive, repressed, pompus and self-important groups of people I have ever encountered.
I'll tell you what's worse than spoiled children in adult bodies: naive, repressed children in adult bodies.
All things we did, along with homeschooling.
It is really difficult these days to raise a child to be able to really enjoy their childhood.
Two are now in college and one on the way in another year and a half, and I couldn't be prouder of the way they turned out.
They know who they are, what they believe and why they believe it. They are not influenced by peer pressure and have no use for most secular culture.
So good to hear, mm - the world needs these well-raised children. They are the future of this country.
Interesting...all life is classified in Linnaean taxonomy by domain, kingdom, phylum (or division), class, order, family, genus, and species. If you're not an animal (kingdom: anamalia) it means that you must belong to one of the other kingdoms: Plantae, Fungi, Protista, Archaea, and Eubacteria.
So which is it? Are you a plant, fungus, archaeon, or bacteria? Since you're not an animal that's all that's left, after all.
Click on my profile page for more guidelines pertaining to the Religion Forum.
Footnote: I was at a mall today with my daughter. In one store we walked by a trinket (in a store targeting youth) with the following statement on it: “I love my penis.”
I hoped she didn’t see it, but I’m sure she did. No one can convince me that such a thing would have been in a store even 10 years ago, much less when I was her age.
Declaring an argument irrational doesn’t make it so. Humans are social creatures, and the quality of those social interactions affects the welfare of all the participants. This is why even most libertarians concede the legitimacy of the general crime of disturbing the peace.
So, if one wants nudity or other quasi-sexual displays in one’s home, one might make the argument that it was no one else’s business; but if those same bodies are placed in the public marketplace they do indeed become subject to public comment and opinion.
The public square belongs by definition to everyone, and everyone gets to express their opinion about the bounds of activity within it. If oen doesn’t think one’s team can win such a debate, that’s represents a flaw with one’s argument, not with the nature of the forum.
Our culture has been so permeated, that I’m not even suprised anymore. Even many conservatives have bought into the liberal sexual revolution, which ironically, the liberals used to break down the family and take more control of society.
Please note my comment above (can’t remember which one) about the author of the article hoping his kids didn’t see stuff... He didn’t talk about it with them. IMO it is very important to discuss the cultural depravity with them as they come across it (in an age appropriate way, of course) because otherwise their little minds will keep thinking about it and wondering. Anyway, you probably don’t need any advice from me - but just noticed your comment. Probably most every parent here has stories of things their children have seen and heard that would have shocked the socks off of people a generation ago - heck, even ten years ago!
I have a BIL who is a libertarian/atheist. You have described him to a tee. I never knew what “looking down your nose” meant until I met him. The man literally tilts his head back and lifts his eyebrows when he speaks down to you.
I told my hubby that his problem is that he can’t handle authority. The man can’t follow a rule without protest.
“Hey, if you consider yourself an animal far be it from me to disagree, you know yourself far better than I ever could. As for myself, I am not an animal nor do I behave like one. Dogs screw on your front lawn, take a dump right in front of you....because they are animals, they have no modesty, no morals. If you really believe humans are no different than animals, I pity you.”
My dogs favorite treat is warm cat shit, they love digging it back up after the cats take a dump. How ‘bout you, Kev? Sound tasty? It’s so funny when fools try to compare their behavior to animals.
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