Posted on 01/15/2009 9:50:50 AM PST by NYer
.- A new survey of denominational loyalty reports that churchgoing Catholics are significantly less likely than churchgoing Protestants to change denominations.
Six out of ten active Catholics would only consider attending a Catholic church, while about 30 percent would prefer attending a Catholic church but would consider others, the survey says. Eleven percent of churchgoing Catholics reportedly do not show a specific preference for attending a Catholic church.
By contrast, only 16 percent of Protestant churchgoers will only consider attending a church of their present denomination. About 51 percent express a preference for one denomination, while 33 percent do not have any preference for a specific denomination.
Phoenix-based Ellison Research released the results of the poll on Monday.
“The good news for the Catholic church is that six out of ten Catholics will not even consider attending church in any other denomination, which is far higher than for Protestants. The bad news, of course, is that four out of ten active Catholics would at least be open to another denomination, even though most would prefer to remain in the Catholic Church,” commented Ron Sellers, president of Ellison Research.
The survey of a representative sample of 1,007 American adults included 471 respondents who regularly attend worship services at a church broadly considered to be in the Christian tradition, categorized into Protestant, Roman Catholic, Mormon, and Orthodox.
Respondents who attend worship services at least once a month were first asked the specific denomination of the church they attend most often. This distinguished “Southern Baptist” from “Free Will Baptist,” for example.
The respondents were then asked what role that denomination would play if they could no longer attend their current church, in the case it closed or the respondent moved.
Sellers explained that there may be additional factors affecting the difference between Catholic and Protestant denominational loyalty.
“It’s not as though there are two hundred different Roman Catholic denominations,” he said. “On the Protestant side, there are scores of different denominations, with some of them fairly similar in practice and theology.
“The story of this research is that many Protestants may not see a lot of difference among some of these denominations,” Sellers said.
For comparison, Ellison Research asked Americans about their loyalty to certain brands in more than 32 categories of products and services. Respondents expressed between about 10 to 20 percent exclusive loyalty to brands like automobiles or toothpaste, while between about 60 to 70 percent reported a brand preference.
Respondents were especially loyal to toothpaste, with 22 percent saying they use one brand exclusively.
“It may not be lack of loyalty so much as it is the presence of so many options that is causing Protestants to be about as loyal to a brand of toothpaste or bathroom tissue as they are to their church denomination,” Sellers remarked.
Among all churchgoing respondents, three out of ten said they would only consider attending one denomination, while 44 percent said they have one preferred denomination but would also consider others. Eleven percent reported a small number of denominations they would consider.
According to the survey results, denominational loyalty does not vary significantly by gender, household income, age, or type of community. It does vary by race or ethnicity and by region of the United States.
Hispanic churchgoers, who are majority Catholic, are the most intensely loyal to their denomination. African-Americans reportedly have the least denominational loyalty.
Denominational loyalty is highest in the Northeast U.S., where Catholicism is more common than elsewhere in the country. Such loyalty is lowest in the South, where Catholicism is less common.
People who report attending a non-denominational church, the Ellison Research survey says, are actually more committed to remaining non-denominational than churchgoers in Protestant denominations are to staying within their denomination. About 29 percent of non-denominational churchgoers will only consider a non-denominational church, while 32 percent express a preference for a non-denominational church.
Writing it doesn't make it so. If you were baptized in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, you are validly baptized and, if you so decide, join the Catholic Church, you will not need to be rebaptized.
I do not worship Mary
Depends on what you mean by "worship." If you mean by adoration due only to God, Catholics do not worship Mary either.
I was validly baptized — and am NOT a Catholic
But you were at the moment of baptism. Since you do not practice the Sacraments of the Church (you could do so as Orthodox too, by the way), you fell off at some point following your baptism.
>> Faith is essential but it’s not correct to say it’s sufficient. Well, I suppose it is if you’re a Protestant. Not interested in debating this. You know the scriputes: “Faith without works is dead.”
Faith is the only essential element. Works are evidence of faith — but it is from the faith, not the works, that Salvation is achieved. No amount of works can create Salvation.
SnakeDoc
there were three things that remain, according to scripture.
>> Disagree if you will, I am telling you what the Catholic teaching is.
The Catholic teaching is wrong. And, ultimately “Catholic teaching” is irrelevant, particularly when contrary the teachings of Christ.
>> But you were at the moment of baptism.
No, I wasn’t. I was a Baptist.
>> Since you do not practice the Sacraments of the Church (you could do so as Orthodox too, by the way), you fell off at some point following your baptism.
The real question is — does one worship Christ or does one worship the Catholic Church?
“Sacraments” are not the path to Salvation — Christ is. There are no hoops to jump through, no contrived Catholic formalities that must be kept, no symbolic gestures that must be met — only Christ’s Salvation.
SnakeDoc
The Catholic teaching disagrees. As St. James explaines in his letter, both faith and works of charity are necessary for salvation. You can speculate that faith is perhaps primary in that, in the same sense as an egg is primary to chicken, but both are necessary. St,. Pual says the same thing in Romans 2. When St. Paul seems to deny the salvific role of works, he is talking of works done for a temporal reward or under a legal obligation, and especially the works of the Hebrew law.
That’s your opinion. I gave you the mind of the Church, in accordance with the scripture and unchanged for 2,000 years.
Of course we worship Christ: we offer Mass every day. You don’t.
>> I gave you the mind of the Church, in accordance with the scripture and unchanged for 2,000 years.
The “mind of the Church” is ultimately the collective minds of men as fallible as you and I (spread out over a millenium or two). I see no reason to give those men’s opinions any more credence than I give anyone else’s.
Its probably closer to 1,500 years — and it isn’t necessarily in accordance with Scripture.
>> Of course we worship Christ: we offer Mass every day. You don’t.
Daily Mass does not necessarily mean that one is worshiping Christ rather than the Catholic Church (and the edicts of its heirarchy). The edicts and interpretations of the very fallible men at the Vatican is not the final authority on Christian doctrine.
SnakeDoc
I left my church recently. I was raised in the Congregational church, but when it become the UCC, things started to change. It took quite awhile but I feel that I didn’t leave the church, it left me.
What did it for me was the sermon on the polar bears dying because of global warming & the weekly prayer where all the military killed in Iraq and all the Iraq civilian killed with a plea for peace.
I have NO problem praying for our brave soldiers who have lost their lives defending our country.
I do have a problem when the prayer is a transparent cover for the clergy’s anti-war stance.
Nonsense.
Protestants tend to deify God, not their denominations. Breaking news?
Catholic teaching is irrelevant; Christ’s teaching — the Gospel — is relevant. And, James says nothing of the sort — he teaches that works are the result of faith. If you profess faith, but have no fruit, no works, then that “faith” is not saving faith. Saving Faith produces fruit — works — that validates it. Works do NOTHING toward salvation.
Also, you might want to continue on through Romans to Chapter 3, particularly verses 20-31. Pay particular attention to verses 27-28. Romans 2 just sets the stage to prove that faith is what saves.
Hoss
There are those who have this catholic or protestant religious thing and then there are those who have Christ. I will stay with Christ.
Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only? (James 2:24)6 Who will render to every man according to his works. 7 To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: 8 But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. (Romans 2)
continue on through Romans to Chapter 3, particularly verses 20-31. Pay particular attention to verses 27-28
20 Because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before him. For by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now without the law the justice of God is made manifest, being witnessed by the law and the prophets. 22 Even the justice of God, by faith of Jesus Christ, unto all and upon all them that believe in him: for there is no distinction: 23 For all have sinned, and do need the glory of God. 24 Being justified freely by his grace, through the redemption, that is in Christ Jesus, 25 Whom God hath proposed to be a propitiation, through faith in his blood, to the showing of his justice, for the remission of former sins, 26 Through the forbearance of God, for the showing of his justice in this time; that he himself may be just, and the justifier of him, who is of the faith of Jesus Christ. 27 Where is then thy boasting? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we account a man to be justified by faith, without the works of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also. 30 For it is one God, that justifieth circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. (Romans 3)
nothing un-Catholic here: indeed, the works of the Hebrew law, or even any other law, are not salvific. What is salvific is works of charity (Matthew 25, as well as Romans 2, already quoted).
Exactly, we can be a Christian anywhere.
That having been said, we do believe Catholicism to be the Church instituted by Jesus Christ upon Peter and to be therefore the "one, true Church." Eastern Orthodoxy is closest to the Roman Catholic Church. Non-Catholic Christian denominations hold or refuse to hold specific Catholic beliefs in a great variety of ways and thus each differs from Catholicism to a greater or lesser extent according to its respective tastes.
That’s NOT in context — couched in the whole, James is teaching that works are a result of faith — if we’re cherry-picking, let’s look a little farther up in the chapter:
James 2:18 “But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from works, and I will show you my faith by my works.”
Faith is evidenced by works.
You started with Romans 2:6. Try backing up to the first verse; Paul is addressing the issue of judgment. The scripture says nothing about works of any sort being salvific. There is NO salvation apart from saving faith in Jesus Christ. You can do all the good works you want to do — as often as you desire — and they mean not one whit in terms of your salvation.
One of Paul’s points in Romans is that the Law is there to point to our need of Christ and his saving grace; we cannot uphold the law in any way. So, if upholding the Law can’t save us, how can works? They cannot. But, because we are saved, our hearts are changed and we want to do things (works) that are pleasing to the Lord. Evidence of faith. Not salvation in works themselves.
Again, re-read all of chapter 3.
Did Abraham’s works save him? No, his faith did (see chapter 4). Chapter 5 talks of peace with God through faith... I don’t see anything about works causing us to be saved.
Down in Romans 10 we find:
vv.8-12 : “But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him.”
If given the choice between God’s Word and the teaching of the Catholic Church, I will also go with God each and every time.
Hoss
Is that why excommunication was such a big deal before the 20th century? Because you go to hell if you're kicked out of the church?
That's not scripture, that's spin. When a passage of a dozen verses directly addressing the interrelation between works and faith, concludes "Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?" -- I tend to think that St. James meant what he wrote, and not what you imagine he meant and did not say. I go with God every time, -- I am Catholic.
It is true, of course, that works are visible and faith by itself is not. We don't need a gospel to figure that out.
Paul is addressing the issue of judgment. The scripture says nothing about works of any sort being salvific.
Again, spin, and even the spin you offer makes no sense. Of course the issue is judgement: this is when one is saved. St. Paul says that one who does good work gets eternal life, and one who does not, wrath and indignation. Sounds like salvation to me. St. Paul does nothing here, of course other than repeats in condensed form what Christ teaches in Matthew 25.
There are many passages in the Scripture that call people to faith and promise salvation as a result. You pointed out Romans 5 and 10, there are others. But not says that faith ALONE saves, -- that is because Luther's theological fantasies are sucked out of his thumb. Faith alone is contrary to the scripture.
Obviously, those Protestant denominations are not doing their job in teaching that Catholics are evil. ;)
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