Posted on 04/16/2009 8:42:17 PM PDT by lightman
Pastor Hinlicky is correct that the arguments over homosexuality are but one symptom of a fatal disease.
Alleluia! Christ is Risen!
Be sure also to read:
Statement by Three Dissenting Members of the ELCA Task Force on Human Sexuality
“Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust”: A Critique by Carl E. Braaten
When There Are No Biblical or Theological Grounds to Change, Don’t
WordAlone Network responds to ELCA human sexuality proposals
Lutheran CORE leaders urge rejection of ELCA task force recommendations
Ping...K~ for reading after Holy Pascha.
Ping...K~ for reading after Holy Pascha.
I discerned (that is one thing Lutherans do, right—discern?) that if you hold the elca up to today’s culture, you cannot see the one behind the other. Their outlines essentially coincide.
I also discerned that I could make a bigger difference, and live a happier life outside the elca. Since then, one of my avocations has been to stand on the outside and quietly call for others to come out.
Some have.
I still call.
I left an ELCA church within days of reading elca.org and figuring out that what was being preached in our church, was not the same as the association backing up that church, the ELCA. I was disturbed by the “dialogue” they were having about gay unions at that time, looked at the website and discovered the ELCA is not pro-life. Talked to the pastor, emailed the website, confirmed what I thought they both said, left the church. If a church is not pro-life, I can’t be part of it. It was astounding to hear my pastor say that abortion was a choice and we should not judge other people’s choice to have an abortion. It sickens me to this day. None of that was said in church. I had to investigate it on my own. The old people in that church, who don’t go on the internet, have no idea their offerings go partly to an organization that is liberal. I was there 2 years before I knew about the statements of policy on elca.org.
Our paths were similar, TCP. I was fortunate to be able to convince my congregation (I wish there was a way to say that without sounding like I am or was the pastor there.) to go with me. It took some years, some heart-ache, and a little parting of the ways, but ... thank God, it happened.
What a shame. I’ve often been unclear about Lutheran teaching on abortion.
I used to teach in a Catholic school, which was housed in a Lutheran church. Our principal had a bumper sticker on her car that said “You can’t be both pro-choice and Christian.” Upon my first meeting with the church’s pastor at a luncheon, he wanted to argue this point and continued to discuss it even after I tried to steer wide of the subject. He could find nothing else to discuss. Really, I think he just wanted to explain away his own guilt on his position. It didn’t strike me as being appropriate lunch time banter on my first meeting with the fellow. Aside from which, I already knew where I stood on the subject. I should have told him “Here I stand.”
I’m so glad that I’ve had many other more positive interactions with my Lutheran brothers and sisters in Christ since that time ~ including pro-life marches in DC.
Today, my children go to an ELCA school. I’m putting an awful lot of blood, sweat and tears into the enterprise. I’m a little worried about who is going to get the keys to the building and what they will be teaching the children about the Bible ~ what parts may be accepted and what parts may be discarded ~ when I am done putting my time and treasure into the school.
So, if you are a pastor in an ELCA church you may be able to steer the congregation to another branch(?) or synod within the Lutheran Communion??
We have many beautiful old Lutheran churches with great traditions out my way. The pastor at my son’s school is at a church which is over 200 years old. in the secular realm, I would hate to see these buildings fall into the hands of those who do not share the Biblically-based traditions of the church founders.
LCMS is pro-life...
Do you know the particulars of whether ELCA membership, or charter, might be easily shepherded to the another synod?
As a Catholic, I’m something of an outsider, however the clergy and the staff at my school seem to be predominantly Bible based, conservative and devoutly Christian.
I admit that I have not wanted to take this issue up directly with the school. I’ve been trying to educate myself about Lutheran background and values through Lightman’s posts, as well as friends in the Lutheran Communion.
My wife and I don’t feel like sinking a whole lot of time and energy into a school that will easily be taken over by secular humanists.
I grew up in a Missouri Synod Lutheran Church. I foolishly assumed that the lutheran church near where I moved to was, oh let’s say..Christian! No so. I was younger and not suspicious of things, never thought of investigating a church of course. Never again will I go trustingly to a new church. I drive by that place and think “false church”, and what a shame it is that the association that is behind that old brick church is anti-life. The church is over 100 years old, sits in the country, like a picture of what a country church should look like. It’s a shame that liberals have tainted that place. God knows the heart of that church. He knows my heart too. I can’t believe I know better than a pastor what is right and wrong in the eyes of The Lord. It’s so simple, as I told him, I cannot condone the murder of God’s children. He said only a small part of my offerings go to the ELCA. I said one penny is too much, it puts guilt upon my soul if even one cent goes to them. I left. He was very dry and professorial. I know now he is just a liberal, won’t change and does not think abortion is wrong. It’s mind boggling. A pastor, pro-death.
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Looks like a must read, thanks for the ping.
Any decent soul who recognizes that homosexual behavior (not tendency, but behavior) is anathema to christian living. Either the word of God is true, or it is not.
The desires of human sinners make no difference to the truth - whether gay or straight.
I know a pastor who took two of his three churches from the ELCA to the AFLC and kept their property, etc. I don’t know how it all worked and how it might work for a school, but you might want to visit the AFLC web site and see who might be able to answer your questions.
I need to have a heart to heart with our school’s pastor and the president of the board before moving forward.
I’m not certain when would be a good time to broach this subject. I was kind of hoping someone else ~ a member of the Lutheran denomination, for that matter ~ would throw the first spear.
We have many beautiful old Lutheran churches with great traditions out my way. The pastor at my son’s school is at a church which is over 200 years old. in the secular realm, I would hate to see these buildings fall into the hands of those who do not share the Biblically-based traditions of the church founders.
Every congregation will take a different route. Personally, I think what you will see is more families and individuals leaving elca churches than churches leaving the elce. Yes, that will leave those beautiful old buildings in the hands of the increasingly less Christian who remain behind.
If you are ever involved in a ship wreck, and the captain tells all the survivors to take something into the water when you jump, something that help provide for the survival of everyone, be sure that you don't grab the anchor and jump with it in your arms.
There is a ship wreck coming in the elca. Some would say it has already begun. Maybe those beautiful old buildings represent ... anchors.
We left our ELCA church of 29 years last year. What we found, is no matter how traditional your church and current pastor might be, a new pastor can change everything. As long as the denomination is going in the direction that it is, and as long as the church remains in that denomination, the church is at risk of becoming an entirely different kind of place. I was shocked at how many long time members of my former church were ok with the change.
ping
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