Posted on 06/19/2009 3:54:08 PM PDT by alpha-8-25-02
Louis XIV didn’t necessarily represent the Catholic Church. He had his own agenda. And Cardinal Richelieu, who was his chief minister, was more of an ambitious politician than a servant of the Church.
There were plenty of injustices on both sides. While Catholics were killing Protestants in France, Calvin was burning heretics in Geneva. The schism in Christianity was bad all around. Perhaps the worst of it was the 30 Years War in the German States, which involved plentiful atrocities by both sides.
I have read numerous novels about the Huguenots, including one written by my great uncle back around 1895. I enjoyed them, but I never imagined that one side was all good and the other was all evil.
For a while, it was doubtful whether France would have a Catholic or a Protestant king. But whichever won was pretty certain to do what he felt necessary to consolidate his power.
King Philip “the Fair” and Pope Clement V did something similar in France beginning on Friday October 13, 1307. There are those who still remember those outrages.
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HUH ???????
For a while, it was doubtful whether France would have a Catholic or a Protestant king.
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Actually by law the king had to be catholic...
That’s why Henri IV had to become a Catholic..
click on my name.
Are you trying to say my post is barbarity? Or are you trying to say that my post indicates barbarity(of the catholics)?
If it is the second, then I concur. If it is the first, then you are a clown.
The fundamental issue in France was simple politics ~ who would be second to the king. They tested the process with newly developed lightweight personal firearms.
Very quickly the French found that an awful lot of people of all ranks and stations could end up dead with these items, and fired up with a little bit of ideological ferver, even more folks could end up dead.
That was stage one. Stage two was an uneasy peace under the Edict of Nantes. Stage three was a resumption of state persection of Huguenots.
Well over 150,000 well to do Huguenots are known to have emigrated from France during that period, and up to 1.5 million others probably emigrated. Civil records were not good during that period.
Our family castle was finally dismantled and scattered about as a "lesson to us" ~ so many of the remaining family members fled to Sweden where one of their number became the third ranking noble in the Vasa King's new nobility. He eventually conquered most of Europe, even brought the French in as allies (all was not well in the top ranks of French government at any time), founded Nieuwe Sweden, and scattered descendants all over the globe in every country. I think some of them still live in Scandinavia, and almost unbelievably, some of them managed to creep back to France.
The carnage in the royal family and noble ranks was so bad that it creates many difficult to handle genealogical blocks ~ just impossible to tell who had which kids, when, where and how.
It is fitting to celebrate Calvin’s birth with memories of human cruelty.
If you don’t want to get into it, then don’t make posts like you did in number 3.
Welcome nOOb...
Got any proof about King Henry VIII of England ???
There was bad deeds on both sides...
The huguenots had their own standing army...
as did the Catholics...
They had their own walled cities...
an uneasy type of tolerance was the rule for the cities of both sides...
However long before the Revocation of the Edict of Nantes, Catholic soldiers were demanding to be “quartered” in Huguenot homes, etc...
This lead to the 2nd Amendment of the COTUS..many of the Patriots were descendants of Huguenots...
Paul Revere for one...George Washington...
Ironically, here in central Virginia (place of Huguenot landing), a secular private school built to shelter white kids during segregation called Huguenot Academy was bought by the Catholic diocese of Richmond. It’s now called Blessed Sacrament Huguenot Catholic Academy. Every time I see the name I think someone must be rolling in their grave somewhere.
Sorry not the 2nd...
The 3rd Amendment
The Albigensian Crusade or Cathar Crusade (1209–1229) was a 20-year military campaign initiated by the Roman Catholic Church to eliminate the Cathar heresy in Languedoc. The Crusade was prosecuted primarily by the French and promptly took on a political flavour, resulting in not only a significant reduction in the number of practicing Cathars but also a realignment of Occitania, bringing it into the sphere of the French crown and diminishing the distinct regional culture and high level of Aragonese influence. When Innocent III's diplomatic attempts to roll back Catharism[1] met with little success and after the papal legate Pierre de Castelnau was murdered (allegedly by an agent serving the Cathar count of Toulouse), Innocent III declared a crusade against Languedoc, offering the lands of the schismatics to any French nobleman willing to take up arms. The violence led to France's acquisition of lands with closer cultural and linguistic ties to Catalonia (see Occitan). An estimated 200,000 to 1,000,000 people were massacred during the crusade.[2][3]
Source: Ouiquipedie , L’encyclopédie libre
No wonder France is such a perennial mess. They killed or drove out all the independent-minded people.
Well, the law was changeable. And in fact the agreement that the various factions arrived at after the 30 Years’ War was “Cuius regio, eius religio.” I.e., whatever the king’s religion, that shall be the religion of the people.
But Henri IV did indeed choose the expedient course. It was what his key supporters wanted. As he said, “Paris vaut bien une messe.”
In a lighter vein, Charlie Chaplin, silent film star, was a descendant of French Huguenots. Confusingly, he was buried in a Jewish cemetery, which often led to many saying he was Jewish. As Charlie once said in one of his films, ________________.
I’d say there have been zealots on all sides who have gone too far and done evil in the name of their religion. The important thing is not to repeat their mistakes. All Christians are brothers in Christ and children of God. In that, we can take joy.
“This stuff was hundreds of years ago in old Europe. We’re Americans and should be above that.”
Agreed. Even the trolls and elves found a way to work together for the good of the Fellowship. ;o]
The Church sold EXACTLY what?
If you mean indulgences, please post your evidence for that. Got any?
relics, indulgences, whatever.
The pope did not persecute the Templars. The papacy eventually exhonerated the knights when the truth came out. Unfortunately by that time the order was disbanded and a number of knights had been executed. Read Frale’s book. She’s the one who uncovered the evidence.
It doesn’t matter how long it would have taken to colonize the Americas. It was happening no matter who came here, and we would know the difference because we couldn’t compare it to an “other” version.
Also, if the Protestant Revolution had never happened, Washington would never have had to warn anyone about entanglements with Europe. And Washington would have probably been an unknown English guy. Read Turtledove and make it up on your own.
You wrote:
“relics, indulgences, whatever.”
The Church never sold indulgences. Some individuals violated canon law and did so, but the Church never sanctioned the sale of indulgences. I also know offhand of no case of the Church ever selling relics and they were not believed by the English peasantry to have anything to do with salvation anyway.
Ever heard of martin luther?
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