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Childish behavior. |
Posted on 07/20/2009 9:32:05 PM PDT by bdeaner
Has Jesus paid for your sins on the cross or not?
Stand before God cloaked in your own righteousness, if you are so unwisely inclined. I'm grateful to meet God at the moment of my death clothed in the cleansing blood of Christ alone.
Ezekiel 18
20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?
24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
25 Yet ye say, The way of the LORD is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal?
26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
There was grace and bloodless atonement prior to the crucifixion.
Jeremiah 31:2 Thus saith YHWH: the people that were left of the sword have found grace in the wilderness, even Israel, when I go to cause him to rest.
God promises the descendants of Israel who, through captivity, exile, and intermarriage with Gentiles became assimilated and inculturated Gentiles today that they will find "grace in the wilderness".
The exile mentioned in Isaiah
From the JPS (1917) Jewish Bible Tanakh
8 In full measure, when Thou sendest her away, Thou dost contend with her; He hath removed her with His rough blast in the day of the east wind.
9 Therefore by this shall the iniquity of Jacob be expiated, and this is all the fruit of taking away his sin: when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in pieces, so that the Asherim and the sun-images shall rise no more.
Their exile was their atonement. Bloodless atonement.
Jesus tells us that he came to preach repentance and that is what he did. YHWH gave grace and bloodless atonement long before the crucifixion. Jesus wasn't needed as a 'blood sacrifice' for the forgiveness of sins. He even tells us that he would have mercy and NOT sacrifice.
Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Mark 6
11 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
12 And they went out, and preached that men should repent.
13 And they cast out many devils, and anointed with oil many that were sick, and healed them.
He lived and taught as a Jew, yet many want to strip him of his Jewishness. Topsy turvy times, when up is down and down is up, I guess.
I will stand before YHWH knowing that I trusted and put my faith in YHWH and His instructions.
I look at it this way. If I put all my trust and faith in YHWH, I'm ok.
However, if YHWH and Jesus are NOT one in the same, and I trusted and put my faith in Jesus, I'm doomed.
I'd rather trust the Creator, than the created. JMO
Malachi 3
(2) But who may abide the day of his coming? And who shall stand when he appeareth? For he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap; (3) And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver; and there shall be they that shall offer unto YHWH offerings in righteousness. (4) Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto YHWH, as in the days of old, and as in ancient years. (5) And I will come near to you to judgment; and I will be a swift witness against the sorcerers, and against the adulterers, and against false swearers; and against those that oppress the hireling in his wages, the widow, and the fatherless, and that turn aside the stranger from his right, and fear not Me, saith YHWH of hosts. (6) For I YHWH change not; and ye, O sons of Jacob, are not consumed. (7) From the days of your fathers ye have turned aside from Mine ordinances, and have not kept them. Return unto Me, and I will return unto you, saith YHWH of hosts.
NIV:
Galatians 2:16
know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
KJV:
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:16 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)
16But knowing that man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ; we also believe in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: because by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
So what?
Nothing you have stated addresses the issue that Scripture, itself, seems to support the idea that there is a Purgatory.
Nothing you have posted proves anything at all, or disproves anything at all.
Those in Purgatory are NOT in hell, therefore, they have been “saved” (From HELL!) -— They just are not ready for Heaven.
Besides the fact that your citations do not disprove Purgatory, or even address the subject, something else must be noted:
If you wanted to make the point that someone who followed ALL of the Commandments, yet did not believe in God, would not go to Heaven, how would you make that point, and what language would you use?
Matt. 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (petros - proper masculine noun; a rock or stone detached, large fragment), and upon this rock (petra - femine noun - a large rock, cliff, ledge, massive living rock) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
A man is saved FOR good works, not BY good works: Ephesians 2:10. Good works are just the fruit of salvation already posessed.
Thou shalt not kill (commit murder).
semantics
Why do you willfully refuse to accept the finished work of Christ upon the cross for all of your sin and instead vainly rely upon your own supposed "good works" and "righteousness" to save you from your sin when God Himself says you are not good or righteous in yourself?:
9What then? (O)Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both (P)Jews and (Q)Greeks are (R)all under sin;
"as it is written, 'THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE;
THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD;
ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS;
THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE." (Romans 3:9 - 12)
It is IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to get to heaven or to be delivered from Hell based upon "good works" by keeping the Law of God because no one can keep it:
"For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in ONE POINT, he has become guilty of ALL." JAMES 2:10
Luke 1
5 THERE was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith the Lord GOD.
Though Noah, Daniel, and Job were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.
Somebody is mistaken. Who to believe, hmmm
John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
1 John is telling us to keep and do the impossible???
Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Deuteronomy 11
18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.
19 And ye shall teach them your children, speaking of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;
(Obedience is the test of true love for God. Adam and Eve disobeyed, and were kicked out of the Garden. Abraham obeyed and it was counted unto him as righteousness)26 Behold, I set before you this day a blessing and a curse;
(God gives you/us a choice)27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
Just so we realize how important the commandments are.
And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.
Hearken unto me, ye that know righteousness, the people in whose heart is my law; fear ye not the reproach of men, neither be ye afraid of their revilings.
Shows the connection between righteousness and the law.
Proverbs 12:28
In the way of righteousness is life: and in the pathway thereof there is no death.
Lexicon Greek 1343 [ from the root of 1342]
dikaiosune {dik-ah-yos-oo'-nay}
1) in a broad sense: state of him who is as he ought to be, righteousness, the condition acceptable to God
a) the doctrine concerning the way in which man may attain a state approved of God
b) integrity, virtue, purity of life, rightness, correctness of thinking feeling, and acting
2) in a narrower sense, justice or the virtue which gives each his due
Lexicon Greek 1342 dikaios {dik'-ah-yos}
1) righteous, observing divine laws
a) in a wide sense, upright, righteous, virtuous, keeping the commands of God
1) of those who seem to themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves to be righteous, who pride themselves in their virtues, whether real or imagined
2) innocent, faultless, guiltless
3) used of him whose way of thinking, feeling, and acting is wholly conformed to the will of God, and who therefore needs no rectification in the heart or life
a) only Christ truly
4) approved of or acceptable of God
b) in a narrower sense, rendering to each his due and that in a judicial sense, passing just judgment on others, whether expressed in words or shown by the manner of dealing with them
Now, then, Jesus tells us that he is 'the way'. What does he mean by that?
Lexicon Greek 3598
1) properly
1a) a way
1a1) a traveled way, road
1b) a travelers way, journey, traveling
2) metaph.
2a) a course of conduct
2b) a way (i.e. manner) of thinking, feeling, deciding
Jesus was teaching and showing us HOW TO CONDUCT ourselves so that we would be found acceptable to YHWH.
Exodus 18
19 Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God:
20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.
(NIV)
Deuteronomy 30
11 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach.
(NASB)
Deuteronomy 30
11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach.
(MSG)
Deuteronomy 30
11 This commandment that I'm commanding you today isn't too much for you, it's not out of your reach.
(AMP)
Deuteronomy 30
11 For this commandment which I command you this day is not too difficult for you, nor is it far off.
(NLT)
Deuteronomy 30
The Choice of Life or Death
11"This command I am giving you today is not too difficult for you to understand or perform.
(KJV)
Deuteronomy 30
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
(NLV)
Deuteronomy 30
Life Or Death
11" For this Law I give you today is not too hard for you, or too far from you.
(ESV)
Deuteronomy 30
The Choice of Life and Death
11"For this commandment that I command you today is not too hard for you, neither is it far off.
(CEV)
Deuteronomy 30
Choose Life, Not Death
Moses said to Israel:
11 You know God's laws, and it isn't impossible to obey them.
(NKJV)
Deuteronomy 30
The Choice of Life or Death
11 "For this commandment which I command you today is not too mysterious for you, nor is it far off.
(KJ21)
Deuteronomy 30
11 "For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
(ASV)
Deuteronomy 30
11 For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off. I have no argument with the observation that keeping the Law completely is difficult. The rewards are great; why should the effort required be small or non existent? And clearly, were it not for YHWH’s infinite grace and mercy, no human would live long enough to "fulfill" the Law. If YHWH really expected us to be perfect right off the bat, why does the Torah describe the procedures required for atonement? The repenting of sin? I’d think that if YHWH expected us to do everything perfectly the first time, and that if we were going to Hell for doing otherwise, then repentence, the sacrificial procedures and the Day of Atonement would not be part of the Jewish faith. YHWH knows we aren’t perfect. I think YHWH simply expects us to try our best, to work constantly at becoming more perfect than we are.
Proverbs 24
16 For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again, but the wicked stumble under adversity.
YHWH will forgive us as often as needed. It's the wicked that want to give up.
Our own works are as filthy rags to God. Therefore only our good works wrought by and for and through Jesus Christ are found acceptable to God.
The only people capable of "turning from all their wicked sins" are those who have been called by God to receive the free, unmerited gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Good works are the fruit of our salvation, not the cause of it. The RCC usurps the glory that belongs to the Triune Gold alone and sells it to fallen men who think they are earning God's grace. OTC...
Not of works, lest any man should boast." -- Ephesians 2:8-9"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
What's to interpret??? Every word in the passage except for one has one syllable...Most of the words are 4 letters and less...It has nothing to do with understanding...It all has to do with belief...
The passages in James that you cite have far larger words and are more complex...Why not reinterpret the passages in James in stead???
If you ever chose to believe the passages as they stand, it will be as tho God has taken a veil from your mind...
The verses DO contradict each other...And if you ever accept that, the scriptures will open up to you...You will no longer have to claim 9 out of 10 verses are a metaphor because they escape your understanding...
ET(End Tyranny): We are told that we are responsible for saving our own souls, so no.
Amazing. With that one sentence you have put yourself outside orthodox, historical, Biblical Christianity.
For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls. " -- 1 Peter 2:24-25
"(Jesus) who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
I suggest you look at something other than a Martin Luther translation.
Also, why the stuff about Peter’s authority on Earth and in Heaven?
http://www.iamonetruth.com/peter___rock.htm
Besides, Jesus spoke Aramaic, NOT Greek.
In the native tongue of Jesus, there was NO difference in the word!
“Some argue that in this passage there is a minor difference between the Greek term for Peter (Petros) and the term for rock (petra), yet they ignore the obvious explanation: petra, a feminine noun, has simply been modifed to have a masculine ending, since one would not refer to a man (Peter) as feminine. The change in the gender is purely for stylistic reasons.
These critics also neglect the fact that Jesus spoke Aramaic, and, as John 1:42 tells us, in everyday life he actually referred to Peter as Kepha or Cephas (depending on how it is transliterated). It is that term which is then translated into Greek as petros. Thus, what Jesus actually said to Peter in Aramaic was: “You are Kepha and on this very kepha I will build my Church.”
The Church Fathers, those Christians closest to the apostles in time, culture, and theological background, clearly understood that Jesus promised to build the Church on Peter, as the following passages show.”
http://www.catholic.com/library/Origins_of_Peter_as_Pope.asp
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