Posted on 08/22/2009 5:15:57 PM PDT by rhema
Yes, they did outgrow Papism.
Growing up signing the great hymns of the great masters certainly does give one pause in most of today's version of "music" of what my former choir director called "7 11" songs (seven words sung 11 times!)
Music or what today is referred to as music, which is mostly mono-tonal mumbo-jumbo accompanied by pseudo-rock bands and the like, causes more dissension in churches today.
Why not get a head start on the rest of us, and begin to practice whatever you plan to do when being openly Christian is made illegal?
Sorry, I don't know what you mean.
The "protestant reformation" was like a little boy running away from home. I said, "eventually they outgrow it." Speaking generally.
What "folks," Catholics?
Continuing with my (very apt) analogy from another post, that's like a runaway child telling his parents "you learned absolutely nothing from my running away."
Thanks the anti Catholic bigotry gets old sometimes but mostly I just figure someone has an attitude and a healthy dose of msplaced hate in their hearts to make them act that way. I’ve read the whole Bible several times though I can’t quote but I never felt that made one a better Christian, more just a show off. It’s more important to know what it truly means.
False doctrine is true. Some ELCA pastors in my area are teaching that it was necessary for Christ to die, but it is not necessary for people to believe in him in order to be saved.
And the fact that you put it like that, in that manner, is proof positive that the condescending, overbearing attitude that sparked the reformation (it doesn’t have quotes) is still alive and well.
Why wouldn’t you want to run away from an abusive home?
Reading the gospel every mass is great, except that just like everything else that is done by rote it can just “wash over folks”.
Explaining the Gospel every mass, now that would be good.
Explaining the Gospel every mass, now that would be good.
Which is where the priest's homily immediately following the Gospel reading comes in.
A bible-based, non-denominational church.
I’ve been to catholic masses where the homily has been absolutely stunning. I’ve been to others where it has been little more than a few trite words about “goodness”.
Conversely, I’ve been to Anglican services that have sent me to sleep, I’ve been to others that have left me leaping with joy. I’ve heard Baptist sermons that have stayed with me forever, I’ve been to others where the preacher was clearly having some kind of breakdown. I’ve been to Methodist services that have terrified me, I’ve been to others that have calmed my mind. I’ve been to Pentacostal services where I’ve learned things I’d never considered before, I’ve been to others where I couldn’t wait to get out the door.
In the final analysis, it’s all about whether the people leading, whatever they call themselves, are smart and humble enough to let God work through them.
I hesitate to offer that invitation...my congregation has had nothing but problems with former ELCA members who refuse to let go of their old ways...
A suggestion of where to go for ELCA members: When the first truly doctrinally indifferent, socially-driven merger occurred in one of the predecessor church bodies of the ELCA, that of 1917, when the Norwegian Synod, the United Norwegian Lutheran Church of North American, and the Hauge Synod, they formed a church body that a little later was named the Evangelical Lutheran Church (ELC). The basis of their merger was, besides the Norwegian ethnicity of all three groups, characterized by a phrase derived from a “study document” of the time. The phrase was “agree to disagree.” That phrase became the organizing and operating principle of each new merger that followed, culminating in the 1981 merger that became the ELCA. So, after 92 years, when the first agreement to disagree was over the doctrine of election (really about whether the Bible and Lutheran Confessions taught SOLA GRATIA, that is, saved by grace, 100% the work of God), the ELCA has now agreed to disagree about whether homosexuality and same sex marriage is a sin or a wonderful and blessed gift of God. WOW! To say that Martin Luther would be spinning in his grave is putting it mildly ... he was surely spinning in his grave in 1917 too, but that was then and this is now.
A small group of congregations (seven) and pastors refused to go along with the 1917 merger. That small group, grown to about 140 congregations, still exists today. They have their own college and seminary, and can be found throughout the country. It is called the Evangelical Lutheran Synod (ELS). They confess and teach today what they did in 1917. So, instead of looking for a new home, how about an old home. Come home. It may not be an easy change for you, because you have wandered far, far from home. But SOLA GRATIA, SOLA FIDE, SOLA SCRIPTURA, and thus, SOLUS CHRISTUS still reign supreme, and the cross of Christ not only remains firmly attached to steeples, but Christ crucified for sinners is preached every Sunday in every congregation by every pastor.
Did the homosexuals just nail their theses to your door? Relax, you've just been "reformed". You've experienced a "reformation" in a way you never expected. Enjoy.
What goes around, comes around.
That’s interesting. Maybe the pastor needs to do some better ‘vetting’ before the council accepts them as members.
it is a common happening throughout the synod, unfortunately...
And they went out the door unto them...
God Will Remove the Leaders
1 For behold, the Lord GOD of hosts is going to remove from Jerusalem and Judah
Both supply and support, the whole supply of bread
And the whole supply of water;
2 The mighty man and the warrior,
The judge and the prophet,
The diviner and the elder,
3 The captain of fifty and the honorable man,
The counselor and the expert artisan,
And the skillful enchanter.
4 And I will make mere lads their princes,
And capricious children will rule over them,
5 And the people will be oppressed,
Each one by another, and each one by his neighbor;
The youth will storm against the elder
And the inferior against the honorable.
6 When a man lays hold of his brother in his father’s house, saying,
“You have a cloak, you shall be our ruler,
And these ruins will be under your charge,”
7 He will protest on that day, saying,
“I will not be your healer,
For in my house there is neither bread nor cloak;
You should not appoint me ruler of the people.”
8 For Jerusalem has stumbled and Judah has fallen,
Because their speech and their actions are against the LORD,
To rebel against His glorious presence.
9 The expression of their faces bears witness against them,
And they display their sin like Sodom;
They do not even conceal it.
Woe to them!
For they have brought evil on themselves.
10 Say to the righteous that it will go well with them,
For they will eat the fruit of their actions.
11 Woe to the wicked! It will go badly with him,
For what he deserves will be done to him.
12 O My people! Their oppressors are children,
And women rule over them.
O My people! Those who guide you lead you astray
And confuse the direction of your paths.
God Will Judge
13 The LORD arises to contend,
And stands to judge the people.
14 The LORD enters into judgment with the elders and princes of His people,
“It is you who have devoured the vineyard;
The plunder of the poor is in your houses.
15 “What do you mean by crushing My people
And grinding the face of the poor?”
Declares the Lord GOD of hosts.
Judah’s Women Denounced
16 Moreover, the LORD said, “Because the daughters of Zion are proud
And walk with heads held high and seductive eyes,
And go along with mincing steps
And tinkle the bangles on their feet,
17 Therefore the Lord will afflict the scalp of the daughters of Zion with scabs,
And the LORD will make their foreheads bare.”
18 In that day the Lord will take away the beauty of their anklets, headbands, crescent ornaments, 19 dangling earrings, bracelets, veils, 20 headdresses, ankle chains, sashes, perfume boxes, amulets, 21 finger rings, nose rings, 22 festal robes, outer tunics, cloaks, money purses, 23 hand mirrors, undergarments, turbans and veils.
24 Now it will come about that instead of sweet perfume there will be putrefaction;
Instead of a belt, a rope;
Instead of well-set hair, a plucked-out scalp;
Instead of fine clothes, a donning of sackcloth;
And branding instead of beauty.
25 Your men will fall by the sword
And your mighty ones in battle.
26 And her gates will lament and mourn,
And deserted she will sit on the ground.
Who was it that said that all heresy begins below the belt?
Attributable to Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
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